OptionVue vs ToS

Using Hoadleys addin to build a scanner is just one example of what you can do when , instead of taking the easy way out by buying a canned system, you take your time, "eat" the learning curve and buy the components.

Let me give u a quick broad picture of what u can do and this is as far as I am willing to go.

You get 300 tickers into an XL sheet, use VB to iterate thru 1 symbol at a time , load prices of call/puts in RT from IB or some other DDE source, take option metrics like HV / IV , save to Access DB. Then generate a report from Access or some other reporting tool, and you have your RT scanner.... well maybe not RT more like 1 min delayed. Once you do something like that, you expand to next functionality.
 
Thanks for the overview. I do have an Access toy which I am playing with, using EOD data, but evidently my karma does not include being a programmer-- regardless of the challenges one might find in that learning curve. I am now at that stage of my life where other people pay me for my expertise and I happily pay them for theirs. Still, it was good to know how you went about it.



Quote from MushinSeeker:

Using Hoadleys addin to build a scanner is just one example of what you can do when , instead of taking the easy way out by buying a canned system, you take your time, "eat" the learning curve and buy the components.

Let me give u a quick broad picture of what u can do and this is as far as I am willing to go.

You get 300 tickers into an XL sheet, use VB to iterate thru 1 symbol at a time , load prices of call/puts in RT from IB or some other DDE source, take option metrics like HV / IV , save to Access DB. Then generate a report from Access or some other reporting tool, and you have your RT scanner.... well maybe not RT more like 1 min delayed. Once you do something like that, you expand to next functionality.
More...
 
I created a spreadsheet with commission schedules for some of the option friendly brokers. You can find it at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pUJFtMO5Tp1q_hdunt7agSw
I thought it would be interesting to calculate what TOS really costs compared to OptionVue.

I will compare TOS to IB (the cheapest commissions) and calculate how much extra is spent each year on commissions.

For an example I am assuming 10 trades of 10 single-leg contracts each per month:

Code: 
TOS:       $  24.95     
IB:      - $   7.50
        ------------
           $  17.45
         x       10 trades per month
        ------------
           $ 174.50 per month
         x       12 months
        ------------
           $2094.00 per year
From a previous reply:
Quote from itmediaco:

I have the OptionVue price sheet in front of me and the standard edition is $1495 + $500/yr for quote data + $650/yr for weekly BDB updates. The market scanner is $500/yr and backtrader is $400 (one time).
More...
So, the base cost of OptionVue is $1495 + $400 (backtrader) = $1895.
Each year of service costs $500 (quote data) + $650 (weekly BDB updates) = $1150
Code: 
             OptionVue   OptionVue   OptionVue   OptionVue
Year    TOS     base       yearly    carry-over    total    Difference
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1    $2094   $1495       $1150       $   0       $2645      ($ 551)
  2    $2094     -         $1150       $ 551       $1701       $ 393
  3    $2094     -         $1150      ($ 393)      $ 757       $1337
  4    $2094     -         $1150      ($1337)     ($ 187)      $2281
  5    $2094     -         $1150      ($2281)     ($1131)      $3225
This is very interesting data. From the chart you can see that you would be saving $393 in commissions after the second year.

Now, I haven't used OptionVue or TOS so I'm not giving advice here. I just thought I would present some data that I had already obtained. I've investigated Tradestation and for just a bit more than IB you get what seem to be fairly sophisticated tools. Again, I have not used Tradestation so I'm only giving you my observations.

~dave
 
Hi, obviously, the people posting here do not use the Optionvue software, so they have no idea what it really does that TOS does not do. The main difference is that Optionvue has a Backtrader Mode. This means that while the rest of you are wondering if CME is good for Iron Condors or Butterflies, the Optionvue user can backtrade it and know in about 20 minutes. I also use TOS, but they have no backtrader mode to do this. All you get with TOS is a Paper Trading account, which is useless except for learning how to place trades. Think about it...what is better, Paper Trading CME butterflies for 365 days to see if it works, or using Optionvue and finding out in 20 minutes?

And by the way, it doesn't work. I just happened to backtrade CME tonight in Backtrader, and you will lose your shirt if you try Butterfly Spreads with it.

The only thing is that Optionvue is rather expensive, so I am trying to trade without it, but the TOS platform is much harder to use than Optionvue. With Optionvue, you can easily see how to adjust trades, place the trades, organize them, etc. And as mentioned before, you need the Backtrader to trade any symbol before trading it live. The Backtrader is the Real Value of the software.

If you have never seen it, it works like this. You enter the date you want to go back to, click Start, then you will see the option tables on that particular date. You enter your position, click Convert Trade, and then you start advancing days. Then you can watch the price change for each day and see if it hits your stops. As you progress the days forward towards expiration, you make your adjustments if necessary, and you watch your daily profit and loss calculated automatically by the software. It only takes a few minutes to do a month and about 20 minutes to do a full year. You can quickly see if a strategy like the Butterfly will work on an underlying.

Maybe there is other software out there that has this feature, but I have not seen it yet. Anyway, it's rather expensive, but I don't know if I would want to trade without it.

The other thing I like about it is that you can construct a trade, and it shows you the Probability of Profit and also the Return on Investment. Another feature is that you can add or subtract Volatility and see how that affects your position instantly. So if you are expecting the underlying to drop and the Vols to go up, you can see if that helps or hurts your constructed trade just by looking at the graph and seeing the PP and Return % change.

One more cool thing is that you can construct different spreads and superimpose all the graphs together for easy comparison. I don't know any way to do this with TOS.

Anyway, it is worth it if you can afford it. That's my opinion. Good luck on your trades everyone.
 
Quote from stock-software:


And by the way, it doesn't work. I just happened to backtrade CME tonight in Backtrader, and you will lose your shirt if you try Butterfly Spreads with it.
More...

now , how would you know that for sure ? And if you are so sure , shouldn't you take an opposite side of this trade ?
 
I know because I used Backtrader and CME couldn't even get passed one month successfully with a Butterfly. It's very easy to recognize. When I find good butters, I can do the whole year in Backtrader and make 20% each month without hitting my stops.
 
Quote from stock-software:

I know because I used Backtrader and CME couldn't even get passed one month successfully with a Butterfly. It's very easy to recognize. When I find good butters, I can do the whole year in Backtrader and make 20% each month without hitting my stops.
More...

Did you back test the other side of the CME butterfly trade? That could only mean the other side winning every month.
 
I find it funny how you can just set a set of criteria and backtrade to a conclusion that what works and what doesn't. How do you know if the IC is held till expiration every single time? How do you know when/how someone will enter it, or leg in? You can account for all these decisions from a simple backtest, unless you are strickly mechanical.

Quote from stock-software:

I know because I used Backtrader and CME couldn't even get passed one month successfully with a Butterfly. It's very easy to recognize. When I find good butters, I can do the whole year in Backtrader and make 20% each month without hitting my stops.
More...
 
FYI ... TOS commission is a lot less than that. Do some digging.

Quote from faldska:

I created a spreadsheet with commission schedules for some of the option friendly brokers. You can find it at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pUJFtMO5Tp1q_hdunt7agSw
I thought it would be interesting to calculate what TOS really costs compared to OptionVue.

I will compare TOS to IB (the cheapest commissions) and calculate how much extra is spent each year on commissions.

For an example I am assuming 10 trades of 10 single-leg contracts each per month:

Code: 
TOS:       $  24.95     
IB:      - $   7.50
        ------------
           $  17.45
         x       10 trades per month
        ------------
           $ 174.50 per month
         x       12 months
        ------------
           $2094.00 per year
From a previous reply:

So, the base cost of OptionVue is $1495 + $400 (backtrader) = $1895.
Each year of service costs $500 (quote data) + $650 (weekly BDB updates) = $1150
Code: 
             OptionVue   OptionVue   OptionVue   OptionVue
Year    TOS     base       yearly    carry-over    total    Difference
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  1    $2094   $1495       $1150       $   0       $2645      ($ 551)
  2    $2094     -         $1150       $ 551       $1701       $ 393
  3    $2094     -         $1150      ($ 393)      $ 757       $1337
  4    $2094     -         $1150      ($1337)     ($ 187)      $2281
  5    $2094     -         $1150      ($2281)     ($1131)      $3225
This is very interesting data. From the chart you can see that you would be saving $393 in commissions after the second year.

Now, I haven't used OptionVue or TOS so I'm not giving advice here. I just thought I would present some data that I had already obtained. I've investigated Tradestation and for just a bit more than IB you get what seem to be fairly sophisticated tools. Again, I have not used Tradestation so I'm only giving you my observations.

~dave
More...
 
(I find it funny how you can just set a set of criteria and backtrade to a conclusion that what works and what doesn't. How do you know if the IC is held till expiration every single time? How do you know when/how someone will enter it, or leg in? You can account for all these decisions from a simple backtest, unless you are strickly mechanical. )



I
 
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