Optionsellers.com goes bust and the apology video is painful to watch

[JSOP]

OMG, someone throw a raw turkey at JSOP! Roffle. I did not say 20 YO marrying 90 YO didn't happen, I was saying we could only speculate about the reason why they do.

And in my mind, elderly hits at about 70 YO. Just my own judgement system about elderly.

Now I think I am totally confused. I blame JSOP. After all, J(SOP), and SOP is short for selling options, right? hahaha!

Oh, wait, Overnight means holding overnight. So holding bad SOP Overnight is REALLY bad. Damn! We are both guilty!

ok i think elderly hits around 60 years old, if you think it hits 70, then you missed like forty years in between 20,30 to elderly. LOL Plenty of women in that "in between" age range that you missed would want to marry 90 year old men. 90 year olds can be irresistable; for one thing, they are very mature. Chicks dig maturity. .

 

[Overnight]

ok i think elderly hits around 60 years old, if you think it hits 70, then you missed like forty years in between 20,30 to elderly. LOL Plenty of women in that "in between" age range that you missed would want to marry 90 year old men. 90 year olds can be irresistable; for one thing, they are very mature. Chicks dig maturity. .

So you think the woman in that avatar pic is not elderly?

 

[JSOP]

Jeez, I see those statements. If those are real statements, than I certainly do not know shit about options.

One thing I notice is that he wasn't just mucking about with energy ops, he was also trying to hedge gold and silver. But what is with the differences in quantity between the calls and puts? They were all bought, which I guess is better than selling them? But those strike prices seem so out of whack?

Can someone explain the statements, especially page 2, for us non-option peeps? Fascinating.

Gold & silver should not be hedges against oils & gas if that's what he was thinking of doing. They don't correlate at all!! And what's with the buy in puts & calls in gold and silver? With expiration and strikes all over the place? What was he trying to do? Calendar strangles in gold and strangle in silver? That what it looks like what he's doing. And from the looks of it, his gold puts are going to the dogs too. He might have made some money on the gold calls.

God, this guy is just all over the place. He has no plans, no nothing, just trading in whatever by the fly of his pants.

 

[JSOP]

So you think the woman in that avatar pic is not elderly?

Not going to comment. Not an expert in female beauty or aging. LOL

 

[Overnight]

Gold & silver should not be hedges against oils & gas if that's what he was thinking of doing. They don't correlate at all!! And what's with the buy in puts & calls in gold and silver? With expiration and strikes all over the place? What was he trying to do? Calendar strangles in gold and strangle in silver? That what it looks like what he's doing. And from the looks of it, his gold puts are going to the dogs too. He might have made some money on the gold calls.

God, this guy is just all over the place. He has no plans, no nothing, just trading in whatever by the fly of his pants.

That's the sense I got as well. Reminds me of my first attempts at sim trading futures nearly 5 years ago. I like to think I have matured a bit more by then. But options are so cool, wish I understood them. I can tell that if used properly, they are a powerful hedge against an underlying. Using them as a trading instrument outright and hedging a stock or future against it seems bad. Trading the stock or future and hedging them with the option seems the better way to go? In one sense?

By the way, "Not an expert in female beauty or aging. LOL" Here endeth that tangent we started in this thread. K?

 

[prc117f]

PJB1994, my husband and I were also clients of Option Sellers.com (to verify this, we just received our final statement of EVENTS from Option Sellers.com at 3:05pm CST today- their detailed explanation of how this situation occurred. I'm sure you just received one also). Like all their other clients we lost everything in our account and now owe a VERY substantial balance. I am not an "Elite Investor," or by any means qualified to discuss option buying or selling. My husband is the investor in the family. He's at work right now. I found this forum while look online last night. You said you were interested in forming a group to discuss how to proceed. How do we get in touch with you? Thank you.

So sad this is impacting regular folks who just wanted a nest egg etc.. Curious how did you even come across this guy? I have been trading options for 15 years and I never heard of this guys site or the person himself. Would be interested in his "Detailed explanation" if you can post it, but I suspect his explanation is bunk.

I am hearing of people in the hole for 1+ Million as well. Too bad the Mainstream media is too busy discussing Minutiae regarding everything Trump and they lost their bearings which is supposed to be inform the public

 

[JSOP]

That's the sense I got as well. Reminds me of my first attempts at sim trading futures nearly 5 years ago. I like to think I have matured a bit more by then. But options are so cool, wish I understood them. I can tell that if used properly, they are a powerful hedge against an underlying. Using them as a trading instrument outright and hedging a stock or future against it seems bad. Trading the stock or future and hedging them with the option seems the better way to go? In one sense?

I agree options can be a very attractive instrument to trade in, for both hedging and speculation but one has to be very very very careful and always always always hedge!!! Because just as demonstrated, the market can move really fast in a very short amount of time, and options move even faster because it's a derivative, meaning it's a bet on a bet. What he's doing with gold and silver is trying to take in a neutral stance on gold and silver I guess by trying to profit from gold and silver whether they go or down by investing what's called strangles, buying calls (profiting when the underlying goes up) and buying puts (when underlying goes down). But that strategy only works when the underlying, in this case, gold and silver move tremendously in what he called "rogue waves" like what natural gas did in one direction or another, otherwise they are going to time decay to 0 if gold and silver doesn't move much. I hope they do otherwise the client is going to lose on the gold & silver too. Gawd, so he shorted on instruments that had a rogue wave but longed on instruments that should have one but didn't? Hope it's going to for clients' sake if that client's still got something left. LOL

 

[Overnight]

...What he's doing with gold and silver is trying to take in a neutral stance on gold and silver I guess by trying to profit from gold and silver whether they go or down by investing what's called strangles, buying calls (profiting when the underlying goes up) and buying puts (when underlying goes down). But that strategy only works when the underlying, in this case, gold and silver move tremendously in what he called "rogue waves" like what natural gas did in one direction or another, otherwise they are going to time decay to 0 if gold and silver doesn't move much...

This is the neutral hedging I tried to do with CL last year in pure CL futures, and abandoned it after making some decent dosh and started looking at other bits. Using manual calendar spreads.

But as I read what you have explained, and as I look at the statements, it looks like this guy got caught in the paradox that caused me to abandon my weird calendar leg method in the first place. But he did it with options with strike prices and "(In-out-at)-the-money possibilities", which is way too complicated for my brain.

This all evolved from the idea of maintaining calendar spread margin discounts to avoid an overnight margin call from the CME.

So you go long Jan 19 CL and short Feb 19 CL futures. The thing moves a dollar in one direction. If you think the move is over, you close the profitable leg and buy back into it, but hedge against it two months later on the short side.

Let us say Jan 18 CL long went from 50 to 51. Your Feb CL short went the same way. Net zero, it moved 100 tics...

Wait, I can provide screenshots in sim datafeed to exemplify it..

Edit: Gotta' wait for charts to reload, and for the sim data feed to catch up. ug...

Edit 2: NT 7 sux with custom indicators. :-\

K, well, my NT7 has crashed on sim data feed. It is what I HATE about NT7, it is a POS on tick data.

Bah, sorry JSOP, I can't replicate it with sim data. It is all falderal on the charts.

The paradox comes in where you keep hedging by closing profitable legs and re-opening opposing legs, hoping for the recovery. What eventually happens is after all your profits are taken, you then lock yourself into a net BE situation. All the hard earned profits from the profit legs will be eventually wiped out by the accumulation of the losing legs, and then the maintenance margins start to creep into the game, and so all the realized gains can quickly become unrealized losses that will cascade if the market does not reverse.

 

[JSOP]

This is the neutral hedging I tried to do with CL last year in pure CL futures, and abandoned it after making some decent dosh and started looking at other bits. Using manual calendar spreads.

But as I read what you have explained, and as I look at the statements, it looks like this guy got caught in the paradox that caused me to abandon my weird calendar leg method in the first place. But he did it with options with strike prices and "(In-out-at)-the-money possibilities", which is way too complicated for my brain.

This all evolved from the idea of maintaining calendar spread margin discounts to avoid an overnight margin call from the CME.

So you go long Jan 19 CL and short Feb 19 CL futures. The thing moves a dollar in one direction. If you think the move is over, you close the profitable leg and buy back into it, but hedge against it two months later on the short side.

Let us say Jan 18 CL long went from 50 to 51. Your Feb CL short went the same way. Net zero, it moved 100 tics...

Wait, I can provide screenshots in sim datafeed to exemplify it..

Edit: Gotta' wait for charts to reload, and for the sim data feed to catch up. ug...

Futures and options are different. The biggest difference: Futures do not decay and options do. So in your case, either move in either direction for any magnitude, you can make money as long as it's before its expiration. But in options, you are on a clock. Options lose value over time regardless of everything else so when you are long in them, unless the move is SO HUGE like those rogue waves, if it happens to close to expiration, you will still lose money.

So for you those "neutral hedges" of both long and short might work because there is no decay. But for option holders, those "neutral hedge" or what's called "strangles" do not work unless there is a HUGE rogue waves happening early during the life of the option.

 

[Overnight]

Futures and options are different. The biggest difference: Futures do not decay and options do. So in your case, either move in either direction for any magnitude, you can make money as long as it's before its expiration. But in options, you are on a clock. Options lose value over time regardless of everything else so when you are long in them, unless the move is SO HUGE like those rogue waves, if it happens to close to expiration, you will still lose money. That's why and how option sellers make money. As long as there is no big waves, they make money. And since huge waves are extremely rare, so they make money 9 times out of 10 and the long option holders lose. But all it takes is just this ONE huge wave that happens early in the life of the option, then the option sellers lose EVERYTHING if they don't hedge as we see in this case.

This is the second raw turkey being thrown at you. (But it has stuffing in it.) Of COURSE I know futures and options are different. It is what I just spend 30 minutes on trying to visualize with charts in what I think that guy was doing, but I failed so tried to explain it in words. You exhaust my energy. I hope your turkey is juicy this year, at least. Not as dry as the menial stupid shit we are yakking about here on Thanksgiving eve, hehe.