OptionsANIMAL - are they any good

[rocky_raccoon]

Does anyone have any experience or opinion about OptionsANIMAL?

I saw their presentation at an investor seminar and they were talking about 95% success ratio, almost no losses, and the like.

I later got on their spam list and received a sample of their Top10 trades.
Almost all of them were long strings of adjustments that ended up with relatively small gains (5% or so in 170 days, for example).

Most trades were at loss at some point but were "repaired" and turned profitable. It was not clear if the %% gains were based on the money at risk or underlying stock price as the position flipped from a calendar to a diagonal to covered call and so on. Commissions were probably not included.

They claim to provide eduction but the price is outrageously high ($6500 or so). So, I wonder, if their primary business is selling these education packages and whatever trading they do is just for illustration and does not affect their bottom line one way or another.

 

[Brighton]

From the price section of the web site. Of course, you have to call to get the full story, and you're probably hoping the person that picks up the phone is the young woman with porn star breasts.

http://www.optionsanimal.com/pricing/

On a serious note, I think most people would be better off taking $6500, buying a few books, maybe some basic software, and putting the rest to work in the market. Trade really small, set up some rules, follow them, and adjust or repair the losers if that's a strategy you want to try. You might even make money but you're sure to learn about the strategies and yourself.

I'm not against all mentoring, but I think these guys are just selling a method and getting paid to teach you how to use it. That's a fair amount of money to shell out for a method that A) probably isn't very good, and B) even if it's marginally profitable, it might be a bad fit for your interests and personality.

 

[surfer25]

Quote from rocky_raccoon:

I saw their presentation at an investor seminar and they were talking about 95% success ratio, almost no losses, and the like.

Commissions were probably not included.

They claim to provide eduction but the price is outrageously high ($6500 or so).

You can be pretty much guaranteed you will get nothing useful for your money, and probably information that will help you to lose your money.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from rocky_raccoon:

Does anyone have any experience or opinion about OptionsANIMAL?

I saw their presentation at an investor seminar and they were talking about 95% success ratio, almost no losses, and the like.

I later got on their spam list and received a sample of their Top10 trades.
Almost all of them were long strings of adjustments that ended up with relatively small gains (5% or so in 170 days, for example).

Most trades were at loss at some point but were "repaired" and turned profitable. It was not clear if the %% gains were based on the money at risk or underlying stock price as the position flipped from a calendar to a diagonal to covered call and so on. Commissions were probably not included.

They claim to provide eduction but the price is outrageously high ($6500 or so). So, I wonder, if their primary business is selling these education packages and whatever trading they do is just for illustration and does not affect their bottom line one way or another.

I know the guy that started that company. A nice guy and a smart options trader. Here's the thing. Most these guys are really good at what they do and really love what they do. They all seem to fall into this trap that they can transfer their knowledge and experience on to others. They really believe that. I know most these people well, some on a very personal level so most these guys are on the up and up. The analogy I give is it's like the personal trainer in the gym. He usually is a really buff guy who eats a clean diet and knows the gym inside and out. And they do personal training and think they can get you into the same kind of shape they are. The problem is, it's not the technique or secret foods they eat that get them into shape, it's just time and discipline. It's the same with trading. The guy who started options animal was a great floor trader who did really well. But really it was time and discipline. There is nothing this guy can do for 6500 that will suddenly make you a better trader just as there is no exercise a personal trainer can show you that is going to suddenly make you buff. But it doesn't stop either one from selling their services.

 

[tradingjournals]

Quote from Maverick74:

I know the guy that started that company. A nice guy and a smart options trader. Here's the thing. Most these guys are really good at what they do and really love what they do. They all seem to fall into this trap that they can transfer their knowledge and experience on to others. They really believe that. I know most these people well, some on a very personal level so most these guys are on the up and up. The analogy I give is it's like the personal trainer in the gym. He usually is a really buff guy who eats a clean diet and knows the gym inside and out. And they do personal training and think they can get you into the same kind of shape they are. The problem is, it's not the technique or secret foods they eat that get them into shape, it's just time and discipline. It's the same with trading. The guy who started options animal was a great floor trader who did really well. But really it was time and discipline. There is nothing this guy can do for 6500 that will suddenly make you a better trader just as there is no exercise a personal trainer can show you that is going to suddenly make you buff. But it doesn't stop either one from selling their services.

Are you sure the analogy is complete? In the gym case you have all the necessary but also SUFFICIENT ingredients to make it. In the options case, a market maker could be flat (to even losing to some extent) but make it from the bid ask spread. So one can learn to be flat from discipline and training, but how could one get the bid-ask spread edge by training/discipline etc?

 

[tradingjournals]

Quote from surfer25:

and probably information that will help you to lose your money.

 

[tradingjournals]

Quote from rocky_raccoon:


I saw their presentation at an investor seminar and they were talking about 95% success ratio, almost no losses, and the like.

Is he an ex-market maker? market makers aim to capture bid-ask spreads, so I do not see how it can help a trader who want to grow an account?

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from tradingjournals:

Are you sure the analogy is complete? In the gym case you have all the necessary but also SUFFICIENT ingredients to make it. In the options case, a market maker could be flat (to even losing to some extent) but make it from the bid ask spread. So one can learn to be flat from discipline and training, but how could one get the bid-ask spread edge by training/discipline etc?

He is NOT teaching market making. He is simply teaching the basics of options which he is absolutely providing in full. Just as the personal trainer is teaching the basics of working out. Hell, I could teach you the basics of playing football but your odds of playing in the NFL are very small.

 

[rocky_raccoon]

Quote from Maverick74:

I know the guy that started that company. A nice guy and a smart options trader. Here's the thing. Most these guys are really good at what they do and really love what they do. They all seem to fall into this trap that they can transfer their knowledge and experience on to others. They really believe that. I know most these people well, some on a very personal level so most these guys are on the up and up. The analogy I give is it's like the personal trainer in the gym. He usually is a really buff guy who eats a clean diet and knows the gym inside and out. And they do personal training and think they can get you into the same kind of shape they are. The problem is, it's not the technique or secret foods they eat that get them into shape, it's just time and discipline. It's the same with trading. The guy who started options animal was a great floor trader who did really well. But really it was time and discipline. There is nothing this guy can do for 6500 that will suddenly make you a better trader just as there is no exercise a personal trainer can show you that is going to suddenly make you buff. But it doesn't stop either one from selling their services.

If you're talking about Greg Jensen, he was the main presenter on that seminar.

He said several things that raised red flags:
- he never once mentioned implied volatility
- he never talked about position sizing
- he annualized profits of short term trades and used it as a sales pitch ("How would you like to make 1000% a year?" based on a single trade that made 5% in a week or so)
- he never mentioned effects of commissions on so many adjustments as they do (16 or so in one example)
- he presented a particular AAPL trade (long stock, short 2nd month call, long 1st month put) as an "almost no risk" trade even though the potential loss exceeded maximum theoretical profit by several folds

So I wondered if anyone knew OA strategies from inside to shed some light on the various sales pitches.

 

[Brighton]

Rocky, Keep up the due diligence. I glanced through the customer testimonials and at least three of them mention selling options (puts or bull put spreads).

http://www.optionsanimal.com/student-success-stories/

First, you don't need to pay that kind of money to learn how to add option selling to your portfolio. Second, if those are recent testimonials, there's a lot of discussion on THIS site about the equity market being in a long, low-volatility uptrend (Aug-Sep 2011 was the last rough patch), and how those conditions can make selling options look like a piece of cake, and a lot less risky than it is.