Options Mentoring

Quote from daddy'sboy:

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Also nitro recommends joining a 'prop firm' but doesn't recommend mentoring??!! What does he think a prop firm will do? Of course they'll be mentoring the trainee!! The guy means well but sometimes doesn't think before he types.
As I said, ignore these 'well meaning' folk since none of them have done any courses they aren't qualified to give an opinion. You can pm me if you want more detail.
db
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Actually, I am very careful about what I say.

The difference with a prop firm and one of these courses is that you don't just get trained, you actually trade hundreds of real positions day in and day out, and you get to see how they work over time, and how you strategize in real time as each day unfolds. This is not a drill, this is real trading. In order to get to this position of being a trader, you get trained by other traders FOR A YEAR as their clerk. You know their every thought. Every one of those experienced traders makes $500k a year+++.

You see, what these people that sell courses do is wave their hands in the air, tell you what to do in a five hour course or whatever, and then they tell you to go and trade your hard earned money on the crap they spew. That is a reeeeally expensive way to learn to trade. But hey, they get your money if you win or lose.

In contrast, at a prop firm they will say, this is the way we trade, here is why, here is the technology we use, here are realtime risk reports, here is an entire tech department backing you, here is $10M of margin, now after a year of training and evaluation, go in the pit or screen and TRADE OUR MONEY. At the end of the day, here is your expected share of what you made today, based on mark to model. At the end of some time, either quarterly or every six months, here is what you actually made. Caching!

Do you see the difference? Who do you think is the better trader?

How do I know this? I work for a firm that does 10% of the ES volume in order to hedge our SPX options market making.

nitro
 
I challenge this guy to train me and let him trade HIS money trading what he preaches.

We work out some arrangement on split.

nitro
 
Quote from Tums:

everything they teach you in a $5k options course can be learned from a free book in the library, ET, or internet.
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I assume that by $5k options course you're referring to Dan's course. I can't speak for other courses as I haven't taken them.

Having been through both paths (reading books and taking Dan's course), I absolutely disagree with this. I feel that this has got to be one of the biggest myths being perpetrated, and is probably one of the reasons why so many retail traders are not successful.

If you can quantify this by giving me facts to back it up, I'll gladly take back my words and issue an apology.
 
Nitro writes:

" In contrast, at a prop firm they will say, this is the way we trade, here is why, here is the technology we use, here are realtime risk reports, here is an entire tech department backing you, here is $10M of margin. "



Well ......didn't you hear ? Here is 10 M


.....................?


no one is interested ? no takers ? you lazy bastards writing posts all day long, of course you will lose all your money ! you don't want to work at the firm where everything would be given to you. How ungrateful you spoiled little brats, you could trade other people money while you learn and you say no

Why no one told me that getting a job at a kick ass firm is as easy as a walk in the park ?

....Anyways I thank all the serious replies it sounds as if with non directional strategies a retail trader could make 30% with a very high probability. I will sign for the Dan Sheridan Mentoring program

thanks again and good luck to all
 
Quote from nitro:

Maverick knows what he is talking about. But you are better off going to work with maverick than reading only his posts.

nitro
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Firstly, to defend Nitro, he DID recommend working with a mentor, namely Maverick74. Proof is in the above quote.

Secondly, I have some concerns about Dan's adjustment strategy. When premiums suddenly sky rocket on the calls, you don't have time to adjust the way Dan recommends. maverick74 is definitely correct when he says this. I know. I experienced it. I had call credit spreads far OTM. My short position was sold at .60. eventually, it was .25. good for me until fed day came and it exploded to 1.45 in a second. I could not adjust the way Dan recommended. It was too late.

Thirdly, correct me if I'm wrong, but Dan recommends having a stop loss. I don't know if I would do this with options. The execution is terrible.
 
Quote from nitro:

Any strategy that you could do on a small account, you can take into the SPX pit and scale it as high as you want. Liquidity is not an issue.

Ok, well you did not state that you would not be making 10% a month every month. So you are saying that you can make 10% some months? Sure. But any return on an account that amounts to >20% returns a year with any consistancy can be scaled into a hedge fund if the RR is right. So, if you can, do it for yourself. It makes no sense to teach it to anyone else if you really believe it. Therefore, as Sherlock Holmes would say, when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever is left, however improbable, is the truth.

I am not saying it can't be done. I am just saying that someone selling it to you unless he is a Hedge Fund operator makes no sense.

nitro
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1. Assuming that you confine your trading to the spx or similar market. I use multiple markets, some of which are not liquid enough for a multimillion dollar trade size but easily handles smaller trade size.

Of course you knew that.

2. You understand that money management would be different. The psychology of trading is very different in a personal account to a megabuck hedge fund.

Of course you knew that.

3. A trader who manages a small account would not necessarily be capable of managing such a large account. Losing thousands of dollars is very different from several million.

4. Perhaps a hedge fund would be interested in my trading, perhaps not. It would have to fit into their philosophy of trading (e.g. some firms are long only), allow remote trading (I don't want to live in NY or Chicago), etc.

I think I would need some sort of certification -- tests, studying stuff, etc.

Thanks but no thanks.

5. Coaches could continue to play the game, but they choose to coach instead. Especially after 25 years of playing the game.

You've already made the money and want to do something else.

Makes sense to me.
 
Quote from torontoman:


Secondly, I have some concerns about Dan's adjustment strategy. When premiums suddenly sky rocket on the calls, you don't have time to adjust the way Dan recommends. maverick74 is definitely correct when he says this. I know. I experienced it. I had call credit spreads far OTM. My short position was sold at .60. eventually, it was .25. good for me until fed day came and it exploded to 1.45 in a second. I could not adjust the way Dan recommended. It was too late.

Thirdly, correct me if I'm wrong, but Dan recommends having a stop loss. I don't know if I would do this with options. The execution is terrible.
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Dan insists on putting on a stop order when you open the position. And any stop in a wildly moving market would have "terrible execution", regardless of the strategy. But his option strategies have fixed risk -- a maximum ceiling on losses.

If you don't like the risk, do something different. Do another market that presents less risk -- the spy instead of the spx, for example.

For the record, I am not an "official" student of Dan Sheridan. I took my own advice and took the do-it-yourself route. I believe you have to be your own guru, and while his webinars were very helpful to get started, the market itself is more than willing to teach you how to be a successful trader.
 
Quote from cdowis:

1. Assuming that you confine your trading to the spx or similar market. I use multiple markets, some of which are not liquid enough for a multimillion dollar trade size but easily handles smaller trade size.

Of course you knew that.

2. You understand that money management would be different. The psychology of trading is very different in a personal account to a megabuck hedge fund.

Of course you knew that.

3. A trader who manages a small account would not necessarily be capable of managing such a large account. Losing thousands of dollars is very different from several million.

4. Perhaps a hedge fund would be interested in my trading, perhaps not. It would have to fit into their philosophy of trading (e.g. some firms are long only), allow remote trading (I don't want to live in NY or Chicago), etc.

I think I would need some sort of certification -- tests, studying stuff, etc.

Thanks but no thanks.

5. Coaches could continue to play the game, but they choose to coach instead. Especially after 25 years of playing the game.

You've already made the money and want to do something else.

Makes sense to me.
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I have something to add to this list.

6. Sometimes coaches are better at coaching than trading.
 
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