Oops! Sorry little guy, Obama screws you again.

This BigDave guy has been annoying me for a long time.. I'm just now realizing what a dumb bastard he really is... and that via quotes only since I had to hit the ignore button on the guy to improve the ET signal to noise ratio...

I used to listen to shortwave broadcasts from Cuba. In the 1980's they were talking about sending people out into the countryside to find "alternate food".. they were talking about turning rocks over and eating grubs... and this vociferous moron, BigDave is telling people that Cuba is a good place to live...
 
Quote from phenomena:

For a person who can't admit defeat when you are very obviously proven wrong, it shouldn't come as any surprise that your marriage is troubled.

Infant mortality rate is 50%?? I'll add that to your list of gems.
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Um, no, that was a hypothetical to illustrate how GNI is not a measure of standard of living.

No I didn't bring up Norway.
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Here's the post in this thread showing that you brought up "Norway:"

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2969457&highlight=norway#post2969457

I posted a chart which had norway above the US in pre-tax per capita GNI, without being normalized for cost of living. After that, you started talking about Norway.

Yes, self depreciating humor is your coping mechanism for your low self esteem.
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If I had low self-esteem I'd be very hurt by that. :)

So what can we conclude from this exchange?

1) More laissez-faire systems, where government takes a greater degree of hands-off approach to regulatory governance, do not consistently, by any measure, outperform mixed systems for quality of life and standard of living, and mixed economies are right in the running for economic output per capita.

2) The top rated systems for standard of living are mixed economies.

3) Many of the mixed economies that weight more towards regulation and even socialism outperform countries with less regulation and more emphasis on laissez-faire governance.

4) The statement "The fact is laissez faire nations fare better by far. There's no rational denial of this fact. You can try to argue against laissez faire policy on some philosophical ground if you like, but there's no getting around the fact that it produces the highest standard of living and best societal outcomes." is therefore proven false.
 
Quote from phenomena:

Yep. Enthusiasts for this type of care really should have checked the realities of other nations which have similar setups before jumping on the bandwagon. WHO and shill organizations like that are full of it. I don't know how many times I've heard a friend in Europe or Canada talking about how their grandparent is in pain and their operation or procedure had to get pushed back yet again, meanwhile their grandparent is stuck at home in constant misery. Waiting a couple of months just for MRIs is pretty par in Canada... Waiting time for tests is absurd, meanwhile the cancer just spreads and spreads...
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If Canada and Europe are so bad, why are their life expectancies higher than the U.S.?

Life expectancy...

Canada - 81.3

Bosnia - 78.6

U.S. - 78.2

France - 81.1

Italy - 80.3

U.K. - 79.1

Netherlands - 79.4

Germany - 79.4

Spain - 80.2
 
Quote from Eight:

This BigDave guy has been annoying me for a long time.. I'm just now realizing what a dumb bastard he really is... and that via quotes only since I had to hit the ignore button on the guy to improve the ET signal to noise ratio...

I used to listen to shortwave broadcasts from Cuba. In the 1980's they were talking about sending people out into the countryside to find "alternate food".. they were talking about turning rocks over and eating grubs... and this vociferous moron, BigDave is telling people that Cuba is a good place to live...
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Actually I'm using it as an example of mixed economies (or even socialist economies) performing adequately against more laissez-faire economies.

It's important to understand how the world works in order to know where to invest and what to invest in.

It's likely that most of the posters in the Politics and Religion section don't actually trade or invest, but like to pretend that they do.
 
Often times when i meet people from South America i realise ignorance is bliss. This isnt to take anything away from them, but often times they dont tie themselves into all the things other people have, just because it is not a realistic possibility for them. I have a couple friends from south america and they both work manufacturing jobs for nothing wages, and they really dont ever worry about anything, they live pretty humble lives, and their only real concern is going out to the club and having a couple beers on the weekend, as long as they can afford to do that they are happy.

I always find myself all wound up over how much money i have made on the month in the market, and i dont feel that succesful alot of the time, solely because i see other people doing better then me. I make a mid six figure living but still find myself not happy alot of the time, whereas these friends of mine make peanuts and they are happy with everything the way it is and really dont concern themselves with things that are happening in the world. It has helped me alot since i started putting in time at the homeless shelter just to realise that i have a lot and im still always on edge.

I think it is true that you can definately have a lower standard of living and still be more happy, because you dont concern yourself with alot of the meaningless shit we tend to get caught up in. I often times think to myself that i could very easily be happy if i could find an incredibly hot girlfriend, who loved sex and was content with living on in a cabin on an island in the middle of nowhere and living off the land. :D

Quote from Ricter:

Cuba has done surprisingly well considering the unethical US embargo. And on an anecdotal note, I found the people there surprisingly happy, in spite of their privations.
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Quote from Hello:

I always find myself all wound up over how much money i have made on the month in the market, and i dont feel that succesful alot of the time, solely because i see other people doing better then me. I make a mid six figure living but still find myself not happy alot of the time, whereas these friends of mine make peanuts and they are happy with everything the way it is and really dont concern themselves with things that are happening in the world. It has helped me alot since i started putting in time at the homeless shelter just to realise that i have a lot and im still always on edge.
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Good for you for volunteering. Consider this a friendly pat on the back.
 
1) False, standard has an overwhelming tendency to be higher in laissez faire economies.

2)True the best performing economies are mixed economies, asLaissez faire economies ARE mixed economies.

3) False, the countires which weigh more heavily towards regualtion and socialism emperically underperform those which have laissez faire economies.

4) What can we conclude from this? Dave is a biased ideologue, who doesn't know what laissez faire means. Dave should go back to school, engage in independent study before, or at least figure out what a laissez faire economy is before attempting to engage someone in a debate about it.

Quote from bigdavediode:

Um, no, that was a hypothetical to illustrate how GNI is not a measure of standard of living.



Here's the post in this thread showing that you brought up "Norway:"

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=2969457&highlight=norway#post2969457



If I had low self-esteem I'd be very hurt by that. :)

So what can we conclude from this exchange?

1) More laissez-faire systems, where government takes a greater degree of hands-off approach to regulatory governance, do not consistently, by any measure, outperform mixed systems for quality of life and standard of living, and mixed economies are right in the running for economic output per capita.

2) The top rated systems for standard of living are mixed economies.

3) Many of the mixed economies that weight more towards regulation and even socialism outperform countries with less regulation and more emphasis on laissez-faire governance.

4) The statement "The fact is laissez faire nations fare better by far. There's no rational denial of this fact. You can try to argue against laissez faire policy on some philosophical ground if you like, but there's no getting around the fact that it produces the highest standard of living and best societal outcomes." is therefore proven false.
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No one ever said Canada and Europe are "so bad", you just made that up. I personally don't happen to think they are "so bad" at all. Nor do I recall anyone else in this thread claiming that they were. Perhaps you are confusing threads, or perhaps you are just trolling looking for a stupid argument?

Why are their life expectancies higher? They go to the doctor for any and everything. Sore throat? Go to the doctor. Hung over and dont wanna go to work? Go the the emergency room. Sore stomach? Go to emergency room. It's their culture. Also, there's a lot less violent crime in those nations for "whatever reason". Those nations send a far lower number of troops into war as well. Also the lifestyle is far more laid back, and the people eat a lot better, work less, and relax more... They "work to live" and we "live to work". All these factors have a huge influence on the average lifespan.

Also, let's not confuse lifespan with material quality of life. Which is what this debate is about..

That being said, the United States has higher cancer survival rates.

Quote from Vinny1:

If Canada and Europe are so bad, why are their life expectancies higher than the U.S.?

Life expectancy...

Canada - 81.3

Bosnia - 78.6

U.S. - 78.2

France - 81.1

Italy - 80.3

U.K. - 79.1

Netherlands - 79.4

Germany - 79.4

Spain - 80.2
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Quote from phenomena:

1) False, standard has an overwhelming tendency to be higher in laissez faire economies.

2)True the best performing economies are mixed economies, asLaissez faire economies ARE mixed economies.

3) False, the countires which weigh more heavily towards regualtion and socialism emperically underperform those which have laissez faire economies.

4) What can we conclude from this? Dave is a biased ideologue, who doesn't know what laissez faire means. Dave should go back to school, engage in independent study before, or at least figure out what a laissez faire economy is before attempting to engage someone in a debate about it.
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Since you like repeating false statements, here -- argue with the Merriam-Webster dictionary for a while:

Definition of LAISSEZ-FAIRE
1
: a doctrine opposing governmental interference in economic affairs beyond the minimum necessary for the maintenance of peace and property rights
2
: a philosophy or practice characterized by a usually deliberate abstention from direction or interference especially with individual freedom of choice and action
— laissez–faire adjective
Origin of LAISSEZ-FAIRE
French laissez faire, imperative of laisser faire to let (people) do (as they choose)
First Known Use: 1825
 
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