One of the reasons I like Position Trading

[murray t turtle]

Quote from cnms2:/buy1sell2

What do you mean by stronger technicals? Can you give an example of them being stronger on daily and weekly charts?

===================
Prefer charts for intraday ES trading, not position trades on ES, but;
however would have to agree with B1s2 on technicals being stronger on longer time frames.

Dow theory is excellant example;
weekly & monthly being stronger than daily.{Dow of Dow Jones, born in 1851]

And like customized the Investors Business Daily variation of that Dow theory;
forget transports, Use DIA,or DOW SPY/SPX instead of transports



And another example a polar bear or longhorn bull;
gets stronger with age. Extreme age can be exceptions.

 

[cnms2]

Trading results are statistical. When you trade shorter term your wins and losses converge toward your expectancy in a shorter period. When you trade a time frame 10 times longer, it will take 10 times longer to converge. Think it 1 year vs. 10 years.

But my main argument in favor of shorter term frames is the larger peak-to-peak excusion per time unit exhibited by shorter time frames. Refer to the exercise I recommended earlier on this thread. It was eye opening for me.

Quote from murray t turtle:

===================
Prefer charts for intraday ES trading, not position trades on ES, but;
however would have to agree with B1s2 on technicals being stronger on longer time frames.

Dow theory is excellant example;
weekly & monthly being stronger than daily.{Dow of Dow Jones, born in 1851]

And like customized the Investors Business Daily variation of that Dow theory;
forget transports, Use DIA,or DOW SPY/SPX instead of transports



And another example a polar bear or longhorn bull;
gets stronger with age. Extreme age can be exceptions.

 

[cashmoney69]

For all you position traders.

1. How many adjustments do you make to your trades..meaning, do you buy and sell all at once?..or do you pyramid over a series of days, weeks?..

- nathan

 

[ddunbar]

Quote from eacherlunch:

A combination of all 3.

Same here. Depends on the instrument and the strategy.

 

[Buy1Sell2]

Quote from cashmoney69:

For all you position traders.

1. How many adjustments do you make to your trades..meaning, do you buy and sell all at once?..or do you pyramid over a series of days, weeks?..

- nathan

I average in to trades as they move against me. I start small so that I am never overextended. Then I ride the new trend and get out all at once.

 

[LondonUSTrader]

I started out as a daytrader of ES futures. Over time I came to two views on daytrading. In the current environment, for my style of position day trading, opportunities were not there every day. However, when the opportunities arose frequently they were very good trades. So, I started on the path of developing a longer term method for multiple markets with trades lasting anything from a week to 2 months with the idea of reducing my day trading.

I think the best way to go is to both day trade and position trade. There have been lots of great daytrading opportunities in the ES recently with the fab range we have been getting. I have also seen many good trades longer term in a variety of markets this year from the Swiss Franc to Heating Oil to Platinum.

The other thing about combining both approaches is by doing longer term trades as well it should help to smooth out the equity curve of your day trading.

I think the lower your timeframe the harder it is to trade it. That's just my experience.

 

[Buy1Sell2]

I believe that a higher percentage of day traders fail than do position traders. Day traders generally believe that they are able to control losses quickly by having close stop losses, but in reality, day traders in general miss the big moves that help their account survive and indeed, prosper. New traders are attracted to day trading because they feel it is exciting but they won't have to lose much. In the meantime, their accounts are slowly bled to death with whipsaws, commissions etc. --Day trading should only be attempted by experienced traders, not newbies.

 

[Cariocas]

Totally agree with your view and of the previous post... longer tfs is the way to go especially for those starting out... everything more slowly and got time to react... don't know how scalpers do it!

Cariocas

Quote from Buy1Sell2:

I believe that a higher percentage of day traders fail than do position traders. Day traders generally believe that they are able to control losses quickly by having close stop losses, but in reality, day traders in general miss the big moves that help their account survive and indeed, prosper. New traders are attracted to day trading because they feel is is exciting but they won't have to lose much. In the meantime, their accounts are slowly bled to death with whipsaws, commissions etc. --Day trading should only be attempted by experienced traders, not newbies.

 

[murray t turtle]

Quote from cnms2:

Think it 1 year vs. 10 years.

But my main argument in favor of shorter term frames is the larger peak-to-peak excusion per time unit exhibited by shorter time frames. Refer to the exercise I recommended earlier on this thread. It was eye opening for me.

================
2]Actually cant argue with you too much CMS2;
except look at 1 year of XOM compared to 10 years.

Another argument in favor of shorter term is scalpers win trading contests;
however i like longer term intraday charts for trading contests, and real trading also

Probably shouldnt ignore the fact most money is made longer term;
can only do so much per day.

Like to occasional day trade ES, but ;
Murray does not get in a hurray.

 

[alanack]

Quote from RedManPlus:

I think people draw a false distinction between a "day" and "position" trader.

Let's say that using quantitative analysis...
You determine that a $25.00 stock is $0.50 "undervalued".

So you buy 2000 shares at $25.00

You can wait 2-3 weeks for the stock to revert to "historical norms"...
And make, say, $0.40 in 12 trading days = $800

Or you might get the chance to flip the stock for $0.08 in 30 minutes = $160

But in the 2-3 hypothetical weeks it takes the stock to "revert to norm"...
You can probably do that flip 5-10 times.

So it's actually not very clear... what is the optimal time frame to exploit quant analysis.
Your expected return is about the same no matter what time frame you use... with 2 caveats:

(1) Your psychological makeup should dictate scalping versus position trading.

(2) Low transaction costs enhance scalping... high transaction costs make position trading mandatory.
With zero transaction costs... scalping is far more profitable.

Bottom line... a good trader should employ an optimal mix of scalping/position trading.

rm+

RedManPlus: Please tell me how to get transaction costs down to zero. I pay $.03/sh to trade aapl($.02 comm., $.01 spread), would love to get them down even further. Thanks.