On 10-case geometry and beyond

baro-san's post re-opens (for me) the topic of de-gapping.
Given the example, would de-gapping "align" the 3 methods any more precisely?

The answer is binary. Game-changer or not.

I don't use the rdbms method, which is the most recent of Jack's inventions, the only place where he used bar-2-bar de-gapping.

I believe that bar-2-bar de-gapping doesn't make sense for Jack's traditional approach neither on 5 minute, nor on daily.

For your example it doesn't seem to make a difference, but on larger bar spans, and especially on daily, bar-2-bar de-gapping generates an artificial view of the price action.

To directly answer your question: no, I don't think a bar-2-bar de-gapped chart would align the various methods more precisely. I would let the chart as is, gapped, and only mentally bar-2-bar de-gap it for the rdbms assignments.

On your example it is nice how the rdbms aligns with the price containers and the gaussians, how it resets on the faster fractal.

I guess that Jack worked with somebody to develop the rdbms method, maybe spydertrader, the first I read mentioning bar-2-bar de-gapping.

Anyway, congrats to all of you who worked through Jack's posts to dig out his last pearl!
 
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion and I’m not gonna beat a dead horse.

Whatever you choose will be true for you.

Degapping produces greater precision and clarity. I don’t exactly know why nor can explain it yet, it’s just a fact that someone has to verify for themselves or leave it aside for now.

If one can get themselves to the other side of the logical conundrum - ID’ing bars accurately in real-time, then the 2-3x the daily range comes into view not only as possible but attainable. Unless one is logging bar-by-bar, it’ll be difficult - at least it was for me.

You supplied some key material when I first ventured down this path, to which I’m eternally grateful so in a way I’m here to support your effort in whichever direction you want to go.

I just know for me, my asssimilation and proficiency of the material accelerated when I;
1) logged each bar
2) stopped inventing
3) followed directions
4) read what Jack actually said as opposed to what I thought he said

The man was a unrecognized genius at least to these local vocal idiots whom disparage him. He communicated perfectly to exclude money grubbers. There are logic lock’s in the material, perhaps I’m inventing but you yourself have had the aha experience.

Well those aha’s form a path to some AHA’s that are beyond words.

I don’t think that it’s possible for someone whom just takes bits and pieces of the material. It’s like studying multiple martial arts at once vs focusing on attaining a black belt in one. Sure one can get proficient quickly at self-defense but it’s all about the focus.

It takes a courageous commitment to invest in oneself to ‘see’ all his material as an interlocking system. It is indeed a system and it is one of the most beautiful things I’ve been blessed to witness and interact with. With my life experience, that’s an extremely high bar!

Most of my sharing is now done IRL with close friends, it’s about enjoying prosperity with friends and leaving the money grubbers to gnaw on discarded bones.

Btw, by not actively ignoring and blocking folks whom are set in their ignorant, arrogant, adolescent and rude ways will limit the pace of purposeful learning.

It’s like giving an extra seat to the hecklers in one’s internal dialogue, they love to be attention sponges and are great at being party poopers even though they think they are the life of the party. The yoke and joke is really on them.

I acknowledge that by using the best and most accurate words of description for the close-minded might appear as ad hominem attacks. This is unfortunate but we all have our limitations and our safe boundaries.

Yet sometimes it’s better to get something out of one’s life if there’s no enjoyment of it being here.

Detoxing is good !!

pps none of this will work if you are a Trump supporter, a racist, a misogynist or advocate the destruction of our environment.
sorry, not sorry.

You seemed a little frustrated last night. Maybe you watched /read your favorite news programs too much :) "Calm" is better.
 
You’re certainly entitled to your opinion and I’m not gonna beat a dead horse.

Whatever you choose will be true for you.

Degapping produces greater precision and clarity. I don’t exactly know why nor can explain it yet, it’s just a fact that someone has to verify for themselves or leave it aside for now.

Verify for thy-self is a fact applicable to de-gapping, and any facet of any of the JH methods.

If one can get themselves to the other side of the logical conundrum - ID’ing bars accurately in real-time, then the 2-3x the daily range comes into view not only as possible but attainable. Unless one is logging bar-by-bar, it’ll be difficult - at least it was for me.

Nice to see you engaging the reality of real-time. That is one reason I wanted to automate volume annotations... It frees me to get "MAD" using my self-imposed, and preferred, faster timeframes.

You supplied some key material when I first ventured down this path, to which I’m eternally grateful so in a way I’m here to support your effort in whichever direction you want to go.

No one here owes me anything. I enjoy the opportunity to help when I can, as much as I enjoy being told that I helped. What ticks me is the Dunning-Kruger effect... those that overestimate their efforts as successful, and believe their (wrongly termed) success becomes their filtering mechanism for further progression. DK effect is not applicable to you... Thanks Sprout. You're welcome.


I just know for me, my asssimilation and proficiency of the material accelerated when I;
1) logged each bar
2) stopped inventing
3) followed directions
4) read what Jack actually said as opposed to what I thought he said

#2,3,4... agree. #1, in real-time live, not for me. For general learning and simming (which I am not a fan of other than for platform specifics and machinations) OK. #2, It's fine, even good, to think outside boundaries. And that comes from a proven to be Rogue JH Trader!

The man was a unrecognized genius at least to these local vocal idiots whom disparage him. He communicated perfectly to exclude money grubbers. There are logic lock’s in the material, perhaps I’m inventing but you yourself have had the aha experience.

Well those aha’s form a path to some AHA’s that are beyond words.

One of my fav Jackism's... "A fully differentiated mind appears to be the mind of an asshole to those who have their heads up their asses."

I don’t think that it’s possible for someone whom just takes bits and pieces of the material. It’s like studying multiple martial arts at once vs focusing on attaining a black belt in one. Sure one can get proficient quickly at self-defense but it’s all about the focus.

It takes a courageous commitment to invest in oneself to ‘see’ all his material as an interlocking system. It is indeed a system and it is one of the most beautiful things I’ve been blessed to witness and interact with. With my life experience, that’s an extremely high bar!

It amazes me daily. And baro-sans whole enchilada input was just what I needed to see.


Most of my sharing is now done IRL with close friends, it’s about enjoying prosperity with friends and leaving the money grubbers to gnaw on discarded bones.

Definitely. Do not allow ET or trading in general to consume your life or mind. Go to the movies, Go out to dinner, go golfing, parasailing, or whatever you enjoy. But leave your phone at home, or at least leave it in the car. Catch my drift (not to be confused with a Set D turn)... You are not your phone.


Btw, by not actively ignoring and blocking folks whom are set in their ignorant, arrogant, adolescent and rude ways will limit the pace of purposeful learning.

It’s like giving an extra seat to the hecklers in one’s internal dialogue, they love to be attention sponges and are great at being party poopers even though they think they are the life of the party. The yoke and joke is really on them.

I (try) to learn something from everyone. Sometimes it's only something about myself. There is a reason I found ET, and converse or just lurk whomever it is. I lurked Jack and Spyder for 2 years or more before my interest to pursue ignited. Just saying.

Scat put me on HIS "ignore" list today. :)

"A fully differentiated mind appears to be the mind of an asshole to those who have their heads up their asses."


I acknowledge that by using the best and most accurate words of description for the close-minded might appear as ad hominem attacks. This is unfortunate but we all have our limitations and our safe boundaries.

Yet sometimes it’s better to get something out of one’s life if there’s no enjoyment of it being here.

Detoxing is good !!

pps none of this will work if you are a Trump supporter, a racist, a misogynist or advocate the destruction of our environment.
sorry, not sorry.

There is a different forum to discuss politics.... this ain't it!

response within.
 
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Degapping issue always seems to bring about trouble between you two, whom I consider the most knowledgeable with Jack's work.

Degapping bar by bar seems to me that it helps with viewing the current fractal that is active or is beginning, where as in another point of view, if the top/bottom was made for a bar, why does degapping it matter when the next bar actually didn't cross it, and therefore it should be considered inside bar with price being stuck in a range?

Degapping bar by bar I suppose eases us into the smaller fractal once the bigger fractal is on hold. At least that's how I'm seeing it at the moment.

I still can't seem to wrap my head around taking reversals at the right moment and not even close to taking 2x 3x (maybe even 6x as Jack mentioned for those who can trade intra bar as well) ADR.

Only thing I seemed to have grasped somewhat is that I can now enter with less risk and exit for small loss or a decent gain. (The first 15 min of RTH always gives me trouble though, so I'm staying away these days)

I'd like some advice on what exercise I should perform to carve the turns better? What should I be paying attention to more for me to be able to stay in the market all the time? Any tools or suggestions?
 
You seemed a little frustrated last night. Maybe you watched /read your favorite news programs too much :) "Calm" is better.

Yeah, you’re spot on! That des cheerio petty tyrant and minions negative toxic vitriol is difficult to wash off at times. Taking in a glorious Indian summer sunset on a rooftop terrace helped a lot!

I appreciate your perspective, good to see you post more.
 
Degapping issue always seems to bring about trouble between you two, whom I consider the most knowledgeable with Jack's work.

Degapping bar by bar seems to me that it helps with viewing the current fractal that is active or is beginning, where as in another point of view, if the top/bottom was made for a bar, why does degapping it matter when the next bar actually didn't cross it, and therefore it should be considered inside bar with price being stuck in a range?

It just takes a day’s chart to do both ways. The ID’s cascade from 1 tick differences. 1 tick is the difference between measuring or not, moving the trend forward or not, fanning or not, lateral or not. The lateral that formed yesterday into today has been the longest I’ve logged to date, it’s range was tradable and it also setup the breakout today.
@baro-san suggestion is how I do it - mentally degapping. It takes effort and is work and it does build capacity. It’s only recently that I’ve programmed my bar colors for degapping bar-by-bar.



Degapping bar by bar I suppose eases us into the smaller fractal once the bigger fractal is on hold. At least that's how I'm seeing it at the moment.

I still can't seem to wrap my head around taking reversals at the right moment and not even close to taking 2x 3x (maybe even 6x as Jack mentioned for those who can trade intra bar as well) ADR.

Only thing I seemed to have grasped somewhat is that I can now enter with less risk and exit for small loss or a decent gain. (The first 15 min of RTH always gives me trouble though, so I'm staying away these days)

Those are good improvements. Are you doing the carryover of the previous day?


I'd like some advice on what exercise I should perform to carve the turns better? What should I be paying attention to more for me to be able to stay in the market all the time? Any tools or suggestions?

Depends. What’s your market display composed of now? What drills have you done?

Comments within quoted text.
 
Jack's RDBMS require degapping, at least if following what Jack reiterated in many many posts in several threads, also the most defining threads for RDBMS. However, very few places and only by students, are all bars degapped bar by bar. Jack's own posts all show gaps, though we suspect some automation and mental degapping as well.

What matters most though, is staying on the right side of the market, and what that should mean to you. That is trading. If something doesn't make sense, one can't effectively use it, least of all for trading.

For daily bars degapping all bars may make sense if what makes sense to you is what happens inside each bar, bar by bar. @stepan7 showed us earlier how much of the flow continued relatively undisturbed by larger gaps.

So I believe both may be important considerations.
Even though I started degapping bar by bar, I'm currently in reset mode, as I'm not sure how to effectively leverage this info in real-time, but that may also have to do with the fact I don't have time/focus to do realtime-trading manually. Could also have to do with daily bars being more complex than 5-min bars, and don't adhere strictly to RDBMS.
 
Comments within quoted text.

Are you doing the carryover of the previous day?

I did try carry over from the previous day but I feel like I'm either getting it wrong or just the sheer volatility difference of RTH open gets me in trouble.

What’s your market display composed of now? What drills have you done?

I'm currently just looking at only the 5m charts with 30m boxes overlaying in the background. I have tried using YM 2m charts and OTR charts to spot the turns for awhile but I kept ending up exiting out of good trades or entering at the wrong spot. I have not been able to spot the 2 pair spikes and such nor time the correct turns early using YM charts. Can't seem to tell what I'm missing.
 
Are you doing the carryover of the previous day?

I did try carry over from the previous day but I feel like I'm either getting it wrong or just the sheer volatility difference of RTH open gets me in trouble.

What’s your market display composed of now? What drills have you done?

I'm currently just looking at only the 5m charts with 30m boxes overlaying in the background. I have tried using YM 2m charts and OTR charts to spot the turns for awhile but I kept ending up exiting out of good trades or entering at the wrong spot. I have not been able to spot the 2 pair spikes and such nor time the correct turns early using YM charts. Can't seem to tell what I'm missing.


Post a screenshot of what you are looking at on your monitor(s).

With the lack of an answer to what drills have you done, it would start with the first one, the 5x5. Not by copying, but actually starting with a blank sheet of paper and 'thinking' through how a bar forms. Where it starts, when and what manner it reverses intrabar, how it closes.

Post your result.

How you organize the bars will give an insight into how you are currently perceiving shape, movement and the change of shape.

The short answer is being mindful of the long diagonal of the container parallelogram. The long answer is being able to determine that change in geometry in correlation with volume pace change.
 
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