On 10-case geometry and beyond

Something I recently snagged regarding C-band (T2P upper, T2F lower).

The mixed tense of Jacks wording (past tense in particular) causes me wonder fwiw.

n1.jpg
 
@Sprout

Happy I could help.

A caveat... take care with "Jacks" charts with respect to B-Band and beyond. There is a minimal number of "examples", and as has been discussed, a strong likelihood, annotation done by a student. Even your posted example is dubious... a P1 is rayed just after the P2. How can T2P and T2F immediately following a P1 be correct? Answer, one or more mis-annotations. And look at the corresponding price pane!!

IMO, we are mostly on our own, beyond a few words from Jack regarding B-band and beyond. Thinking in terms of M1-M2-M3 associated with containers has a lot of value. Just saying.

What I find strange about B-band(T2P) and beyond is why the prescribed process is so difficult to get there? Much due to FS (imo). The tenet is that all fractals complete simultaneously. So what are we looking at on screen if at no time a sequence actually completes? In my thinking, something is amiss, because there are clearly completed sequences, at least from time to time on the viewing resolution. A few, which I think is closer to none, that I have seen in the training materials.

P1 is gated after P2,T2F. It seems volume element P1 doesn't always mean price pt1. The way I understand it, the bands won't reverse though.
 
P1 is gated after P2,T2F.

Correct.

The problem with the annotations on Jacks chart that Sprout supplied is the gating of T2P and T2F... on that chart, T2P and T2F, in that order, immediately follow a bar that is rayed as a P1. That can not be correct. A "first" T2P is only after a P2. Afterwords, both T2P and T2F are gated only after T2P or T2F.

It seems volume element P1 doesn't always mean price pt1.

Actually, I think it does. Let me rephrase... As for container points, a P1 in VTP as we are discussing can be a container pt1 or pt3. Applies to troughs too but differently in that its DV, a T1 or T2P/F is either a T1 or pt2 to pt3 move of a container. Thinking you are always "seeing" and/or annotating the fractal or sub, or sub-sub, or sub-sub-sub, etc, fractal that the P1 belongs to is a not-for-profit venture however.

The way I understand it, the bands won't reverse though.

Correct. Once a band is activated it remains activated, but only one band is active at a time. I'm a little confused on this in that it is written that only one band is active at a time. In practice however, it seems that a reverse hierarchical is really what happens. EE Ab is a good example, as are the PPx EEs.... Usable even though a "higher" level band has been activated.
 
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Sometimes, it's just that type of day, tis the season to have low volume. It's a good time to practice wash trades.

The EE is either in Set B at n or fails and advances to Set C. Since it failed at being a c turn, there is only one other turn it can be.

Yes they are both Dom-nonDom-Dom, however Set B's a turn's nature shifts when XO'd the BM set by the c turn. This will make more sense as you MADA more. You'll notice that the typical pattern of Set C at times operates as an inverse. I don't know yet why this is. Jack mentions it in IGMBHTMOADB thread.

I just realized IGMBHTMOADB thread is the very thread I've been reading through last 2 weeks or so. I was like I can't find this thread?!? but it was the "I am getting my...." thread lol.

Today's range was pretty much encapsulated in the first thirty minutes and for some reason my turn types looked like it was operating as inverse as you mentioned. I'm beginning to wonder if I just didn't log correctly or maybe a lateral type of day operates in reverse.
 
@Sprout

Happy I could help.

A caveat... take care with "Jacks" charts with respect to B-Band and beyond. There is a minimal number of "examples", and as has been discussed, a strong likelihood, annotation done by a student. Even your posted example is dubious... a P1 is rayed just after the P2. How can T2P and T2F immediately following a P1 be correct? Answer, one or more mis-annotations. And look at the corresponding price pane!!

This is how I see that sequence.

All bars degapped.

Bar71, XR, PP1, BM.
Bar72, XR is assigned P1 yet the geometry is not immediately supporting a reversal. It is logged as a C D-D turn.
Bar73, Ftp, T1 closing above the BM. No rtl is possible atm.
Bar74, StB is wait and is annotated as a lat3 but the price formation with the assigned P1 degapped does not support that interpretation. It does close below the BM, so BM,rev and assigned P1.
Bar75, XR, P1
Bar76, XR, P1 but no acceleration, therefore notPP1
Bar77, Ftp, wait. However the annotations on the price pane is that this is lat6, so no wait. They appear to contradict each other. Upon closer examination of the price pane, the programmed boxes around the price pane is not based on degapping. Therefore, the thought is that the lateral numbers above the price bars are programmed in this same way as well.
Bar78, XR, special case Ja or Ah. One would explain a P1 on bar79.
The other possibility is that bar78 and bar79 could be reversed in their annotation which would make the T2P, T2F and Fa valid. However that would make bar78 a P1. If it was a P1 then it also has to have an advance one peak to validate Ja or Ah. Ja would assign on next, Ah this bar. Still hmmm,..

The aha (for me)
Going back to bar79, bar when degapped is really an StB. StB with lower volume is an internal, so wait. If this is a wait, then the P2,T2P, T2F to Fa become valid again. The P1 annotation of this bar is therefore an artifact and debriefing would correct the sequence to retain a more accurate record.



IMO, we are mostly on our own, beyond a few words from Jack regarding B-band and beyond. Thinking in terms of M1-M2-M3 associated with containers has a lot of value. Just saying.

Agreed, it is such an elegant, powerful principal and informs constantly.


What I find strange about B-band(T2P) and beyond is why the prescribed process is so difficult to get there? Much due to FS (imo). The tenet is that all fractals complete simultaneously. So what are we looking at on screen if at no time a sequence actually completes? In my thinking, something is amiss, because there are clearly completed sequences, at least from time to time on the viewing resolution. A few, which I think is closer to none, that I have seen in the training materials.

The way I see that is that similar to music, there are various instruments that play their respect roles, have their individual voices (call and response) and at certain points there is a synchronization, all landing on a beat. The Modrian table does this with the ID'ing of the c turns. The part that I'm currently working out is when an a turn takes price below the previous c turn's BM and that trend appears to have the a and b turns inverted from what I associate a and b turns to be.

Comments with quoted text.
 
Hmmm... quick question. Once P2 and T2P locks in we have a B-band. It seems we only have 2 types of EE for the b-bands both of which are high volume in nature. So if the next measurable bar is with lower volume than T2P will it be T2F no matter what? (as long as fail safe isn't activated?)

If so I think I got a P3P EE today. There was an a-turn that followed into P3P EE which I marked as a b-turn. Not confident about my id yet but this was a C-A-B except a-turn was the longest segment. My theory was that the a turn was the last push being squeezed out by sub-sub-sub fractal as this push started within lateral. Or I can just be missing an A-band EE somewhere... the laterals..... ugh
 
if the next measurable bar is with lower volume than T2P will it be T2F no matter what? (as long as fail safe isn't activated?)

VTP "kills" T2F (or T2P) if less than T1.

Although B-band is activated with the T2P, EE's of other bands are still usable. I suggested previously in a reverse hierarchy fashion. Ab, Aa, PP1c, PP6a are clearly usable. There may be others.

HTH
 
VTP "kills" T2F (or T2P) if less than T1.

Although B-band is activated with the T2P, EE's of other bands are still usable. I suggested previously in a reverse hierarchy fashion. Ab, Aa, PP1c, PP6a are clearly usable. There may be others.

HTH

Ahhh thats what you meant. Thanks!
 
Hmmm... quick question. Once P2 and T2P locks in we have a B-band. It seems we only have 2 types of EE for the b-bands both of which are high volume in nature. So if the next measurable bar is with lower volume than T2P will it be T2F no matter what? (as long as fail safe isn't activated?)

Which B band EE it is depends on whether P2 was greater or lessor than P1 in the sequence.
P2 < P1 can lead to Bc.
P2 > P1 or Int UL can lead to Ba.
 
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