OK IB - What Is Going On?!!!

I concur with OrderBlaster: it would be helpful to have different colors for different order types.

Alternatively, a new column field can be added, that could describe in text if the order is native, or simulated. This would take up screen space, but would be better than having nothing.

-- MMM
 
Quote from OrderBlaster:

Which means we'd have a situation where some blue stops were native and some blue stops were not. Can you see how illogical this new colour scheme is?

I'm reminded of the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I can't fugure out where this newfound logic about order colours came from at IB. It'll just confuse the heck out of most traders.
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For what it's worth, I thought the explanation by IBSoft made emminent sense. IB is using the color scheme to indicate order status. You want to use color scheme to indicate where the order is placed. What I would like to know is under the method YOU suggest, how would you know whether your stop limit order had been executed? Understand I'm referring to a stop with a limit within let's say a point of the stop price.

What seems to be at issue here is your own mistrust of where the order is being sent/held. You seem to be a non-believer in what you are being told.

By the way, count me as one trader who likes the IB idea of indicating order status with color. I think it's logical, and I don't think it's confusing.

OldTrader
 
Quote from OldTrader:

For what it's worth, I thought the explanation by IBSoft made emminent sense. IB is using the color scheme to indicate order status. You want to use color scheme to indicate where the order is placed. What I would like to know is under the method YOU suggest, how would you know whether your stop limit order had been executed? Understand I'm referring to a stop with a limit within let's say a point of the stop price.

What seems to be at issue here is your own mistrust of where the order is being sent/held. You seem to be a non-believer in what you are being told.

By the way, count me as one trader who likes the IB idea of indicating order status with color. I think it's logical, and I don't think it's confusing.

OldTrader
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I'm not suggesting anything new - the way IB did things until a week ago was perfect! Traders want to visually differentiate between what orders are native and what are not. Green was native ...that was universal. Now it isn't. Now blue will sometimes be native and sometimes non-native. It's crazy. Whoever decided on this new logic is not a trader.

Why am I distrustful that blue might not be native? Lets' see:

1. I've seen emails from IB reps to traders that contradict each other. Particularly around the native orders when in an OCA group.

2. In the past IB has had a problem when it took native orders and accidentally routed them to their servers. A trader could see the problem because the order went blue instead of green. Let's suppose IB has this problem again. How will I know about it? Wait to get creamed on a 10-lot because it was on IB servers which happened to have a problem at that time, I guess.

The bottom line is that traders want to see which orders are on the exchange and which are not. If they want to change anything, change the wording from Stop-Limit to Limit once the price is hit. But changing the colour to match with non-native is a bad idea. What guesses that they did ZERO market reserach before implementing this idea - which only makes sense in the mind of a programmer not a trader.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
The fact that IB has stated that they don't want "Orders on both
sides of the market" tells us that they don't want traders to have
a stop and a target AT the exchange, but somewhere deep in the
servers of IB. I have the feeling that the SEC, or NYSE or Timberhill
or gawd knows who has told IB to do this. It's obvious, otherwise
they wouldn't of changed a thing that was working in the first place... :(

If only IB would tell the truth... :mad:
 
Quote from OrderBlaster:

I'm not suggesting anything new - the way IB did things until a week ago was perfect! Traders want to visually differentiate between what orders are native and what are not. Green was native ...that was universal. Now it isn't. Now blue will sometimes be native and sometimes non-native. It's crazy. Whoever decided on this new logic is not a trader.
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Let's go through this again. You seem to want to use words like "traders" when you state your very personal opinion. I am a trader, and I don't agree with you. I don't give a hoot about a color indicating WHERE an order resides. I DO care about the status of an order. IB has now clarified the STATUS of an order with the use of color. It's not "crazy", it's quite logical. Now in case you don't get the point, I'm more concerned about knowing status of a trade than knowing where it sits.

Now, let's get one more thing clear. IB has already told you where the order sits as it applies to Globex. Stops sit on their server. Stop limits sit on Globex. You don't need a color to know this....you've been told where it is routed. The ONLY problem you have with this is that you don't TRUST IB when they tell you that. In other words, you have a TRUST issue.

Why am I distrustful that blue might not be native? Lets' see:

1. I've seen emails from IB reps to traders that contradict each other.
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I can see where this might confuse you if it happens. However, IB reps may or may not be accurate on every nuance of the many different elements of what takes place. Maybe they should be. But the fact that they are not does not surprise me, nor should it surprise you. It's one of the problems that large organizations have. Sometimes the organization is a victim of one of their employees who is not concerned about the information he puts out. This problem is not unique to IB. Its a problem experienced by every organization in this country.

2. In the past IB has had a problem when it took native orders and accidentally routed them to their servers. A trader could see the problem because the order went blue instead of green. Let's suppose IB has this problem again. How will I know about it? Wait to get creamed on a 10-lot because it was on IB servers which happened to have a problem at that time, I guess.
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It might interest you to know that I don't use stop limit orders so that they rest on Globex, and I have not been "creamed". If you are being "creamed" or even concerned about it, then what I would suggest you analyze is your method of determining your stop to begin with. For instance, you set your sell stop just below a low, then clearly you run a risk of being there with all the other stop orders, and therefore having slippage whether it sits on Globex or its sits on a server. By the way, the whole point of a stop limit is to NOT sell in theory if the slippage is too great. However, in your case that appears to NOT be the point, you think there is an advantage if your order rests on Globex. And while you may believe this, I don't. You are a mere seconds away from execution of a market order regardless of whether your order sits on IB's server, or you are watching and hitting your transmit key on your TWS rather than having the stop sitting anywhere other than in your mind.

In fact, I love fading the market when they run the stops, guys pay any price to get out or get in the market. Whether your order sits on Globex or on a server, if you're chasing this market you're apt to be on the wrong side of it.

Getting in or out of the market when it is "running" are the circumstances that create slippage, and is a result of the lack of an effective trading style in my opinion. You might want to give some thought as to WHY you are constantly trading in the midst of times when a split second is going to have a radical impact on your results. It also seems to me that when you see the market running, it might just occur to you that you must have missed something that would have got you in or out BEFORE it started running.

The bottom line is that traders want to see which orders are on the exchange and which are not.
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There's that "traders" word again. Why don't you just use "I"? Speaking of which, I would like to know where my order has been routed. And by the way, I do many times by looking at TWS. But nonetheless, a more important issue to this trader is knowing order status. So as you continue to make this argument of yours, understand that "all traders" do not agree with you. And again, I'm comfortable that if IB tells me they are routing a particular way as they are in this case, that this is what they are doing. Since you do not TRUST this, my suggestion is that you seek out pschological help in dealing with YOUR TRUST issue. While I don't speak for IB, I suspect I'm on firm ground when I say that IB has no vested to interest to lie to you to tell you that an order is routed to Globex if it is not. What I see in IB is a firm who is constantly trying to improve the way they do business, and they have been successful in that. Again, I like the latest change.

OldTrader
 
Quote from version77:

The fact that IB has stated that they don't want "Orders on both
sides of the market" tells us that they don't want traders to have
a stop and a target AT the exchange, but somewhere deep in the
servers of IB. I have the feeling that the SEC, or NYSE or Timberhill
or gawd knows who has told IB to do this. It's obvious, otherwise
they wouldn't of changed a thing that was working in the first place... :(

If only IB would tell the truth... :mad:
More...

Why does it not surprise me that here you are once again, involved in a thread with people complaining about IB, accusing them of lying! Serious charge my friend. Do you have reason to believe that IB is "lying", or than a "feeling"?

On to the OCA types of orders. I don't have a clue how IB handles these orders. You know why? I have never once used them in the better than 30 years I have been trading.

There's a reason: the mentality behind this order is a kind of "flip that coin" style of trading that alot of small traders use. Let's face it, if a market is going your way you don't get out just because it went up a few points. You get out when it starts to do things that would indicate the move is over. Or you get out when it fails to act in a way that confirms your initial judgment.

My suggestion to you would be to develop a trading method that requires more than simply "flipping a coin".

OldTrader
 
Oldtrader:
I believe I understand your comments, and you make some valid points. What I would like to point out is that having a stop limit order on globex is a matter of convenience and a safety issue. I have been stranded before because either IB or the exchange have had problems. Both point fingers at each other, and the trader (there's that word again) is left holding the bag. If you read the disclaimers, IB simply steps away from the situation claiming it is one of the risks of trading and any loss is "the trader's" problem. I believe that is why Orderblaster (and I join him in this) feels that he needs some public confirmation that stop limits are truly native (held on the globex system). The issue of trading style is not relevant. He, I, and others are entitled to place the order wherever the hell we please. We pay IB a commission and expect some standard of service, and one of the standards expected is that service will not change without proper and accurate notice to the client. Thanks, Steve46
 
Quote from steve46:

Oldtrader:
I believe I understand your comments, and you make some valid points. What I would like to point out is that having a stop limit order on globex is a matter of convenience and a safety issue. I have been stranded before because either IB or the exchange have had problems. Both point fingers at each other, and the trader (there's that word again) is left holding the bag. If you read the disclaimers, IB simply steps away from the situation claiming it is one of the risks of trading and any loss is "the trader's" problem. I believe that is why Orderblaster (and I join him in this) feels that he needs some public confirmation that stop limits are truly native (held on the globex system). The issue of trading style is not relevant. He, I, and others are entitled to place the order wherever the hell we please. We pay IB a commission and expect some standard of service, and one of the standards expected is that service will not change without proper and accurate notice to the client. Thanks, Steve46
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Steve:

First, thanks for a polite reply.

Actually, I think there are two different thoughts in this thread as it applies to stop limits. First, I agree with you that if you were to place a stop that it is probably more foolproof as a stop limit that resides on Globex. Simply, it eliminates one potential problem from the equation. Second, though I read one of the posters who was concerned about where he was in the que as it applies to the stops which are held on IB's servers. So one issue revolves around safety. The other issue has to do with issues that I believe have to do with trading technique.

Either way, it's your right as you say to place an order as you see fit within the exchange rules. And Steve, I think IB has acknowledged that, and is in agreement with it. They have stated that stop limits on Globex products are routed to Globex.

So far so good....except that evidently the one OTHER requirement that orderblaster wants to make, and that evidently you want to make as well, is that you want a color to indicate HOW the order was routed. And that's what this thread is about.

The thread is NOT about IB not routing stop limits to Globex. They do that. The thread is about whether you are able to determine IF they do that, and therefore, whether you trust them when they say they do that. Really Steve, it's that simple.

Then you add this statement: "We pay IB a commission and expect some standard of service, and one of the standards expected is that service will not change without proper and accurate notice to the client." Steve, I believe a commission buys you a transaction, and all the other back up services that go along with it. It does not buy you the right to tell IB how they should conduct their business. Nor does it require them to conduct a poll before they make a change that in their estimation is beneficial. I believe they gave a notice about the change. I read it quickly on the TWS when it came out. What else do you really want here Steve? In the several years I've been with IB I have seen improvement after improvement made by IB. I think these guys are good in almost every respect. Are they problem free? No. But they are constantly working on it, which is more than I can say for most brokers. I'm pleased with the service, pleased with the TWS, and pleased with my ability to execute with their platform, and pleased with the commissions.

But Steve, here's the bottomline. If you don't think IB is handling your business correctly then you should seek out a different broker. My guess is that any other broker is not going to seek out your approval for changes they deem appropriate either. As far as I'm concerned I'm very pleased with my IB experience over the last several years, and I have no reason to expect anything other than improvement over the next several years.

OldTrader
 
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