Oil over $51 Barrel - Need for Refineries

Quote from damir00:

oil hasn't been going up in price, the dollar has been going down in value. there is nothing going on here beyond the white house's weak dollar policy - which is why they want everyone distracted and talking about saudis and refineries and g-d only knows what else - anything but the falling dollar.

in euroland they're paying the same price for a barrel oil as they were 2 years ago.

Damir00, if the price of oil has not been going up...just our US Dollar going down...then how is it in "euroland" as you say, that the price for a barrel of oil is the same as 2 years ago?

The Euro has gone up versus the US Dollar and isn't oil priced in US Dollars?
 
oil is priced in whatever hard currency you want to hand over for a barrel of it. don't know who started the "oil in euros" conspiracy theory, but it's crap, oil producers have always been willing to accept any readily-convertible liquid currency for their product. that most oil is sold for dollars shouldn't surprise anybody since the US is the largest importer of oil. that non-US oil purchasers might use dollars from time to time should also not be a surprise since the US is also the larget net exporter of US currency (eg has really big trade imbalance).

but there has never been a requirement to pay in dollars or to price in dollars or anything along those lines. i'm guessing this latest "theory" is the replacement for the "western civ is ending because of the JPM gold carry trade" theory of 18 months ago since that one is so obviously no longer tenable.
 
Quote from limitdown:

They are publically stating that the world price for a standard barrel of oil will top $51 in a short period of time, and well into next year.

They are saying that because China came online, the world demand has absorbed supplies to the extent that the US (usually the largest customer) has had to suffer more expensive supplies.

A few solutions are:

Building more Refineries, just on a smaller scale and in strategic locations throughout the coastal regions of the country so that the price at the pump will not be so radically effected as it has been.

Helping China to discover more sources of energy in their desert regions.

Bringing online more hybrid vehicles and making it advantageous to change from existing to newer automobile formats.

Let's open this discussion up to the forum.....


nuhhhh no worries mate :)


Saudis said to boost oil output

No. 1 oil exporter will reportedly increase production before election in effort to help Bush.
April 19, 2004: 7:09 AM EDT

The ambassador said Saudi Arabia would like to see the price of oil, which now tops $33 a barrel, to be between $22 and $28 a barrel.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/04/19/news/international/election_saudi/index.htm?cnn=yes
 
Not at all, regarding "command & control" but it sure bothers me to see people waste resources that others fight for and sometimes die because of it.

Just because a person/country has the funds (at the moment) to buy, and in many cases waste energy, should not give them the right to pollute as they wish nor waste precious resources of future generations who will then have to fight for it even more.

As far as taxing fuels more, if it's done in an orderly/non shocking way, it will eventuall result in conservation.

Another example of wasteful energy is the public school system.
These people crank the air condition in the summer to the point you have to wear a sweater inside the building while it may be 100 outside. In the winter, the opposite scenario happens and you walk around in a Tshirt while its freezing outside and the heating systems are cranking away more fuel.

I've seen this on East Coast schools and West Coast schools for 20 years!

Then they turn around and ask for more money. Just a very wasteful society, that's the problem.


Quote from dougcs:

Are you suggesting the US should strive for a "command and control economy" or should we tax fuels so the price is around $1 per liter as it is in Europe. Either of those changes will make the US more like Europe.

DS
 
Quote from IndexTrader:

Not at all, regarding "command & control" but it sure bothers me to see people waste resources that others fight for and sometimes die because of it.

Just because a person/country has the funds (at the moment) to buy, and in many cases waste energy, should not give them the right to pollute as they wish nor waste precious resources of future generations who will then have to fight for it even more.

As far as taxing fuels more, if it's done in an orderly/non shocking way, it will eventuall result in conservation.

Another example of wasteful energy is the public school system.
These people crank the air condition in the summer to the point you have to wear a sweater inside the building while it may be 100 outside. In the winter, the opposite scenario happens and you walk around in a Tshirt while its freezing outside and the heating systems are cranking away more fuel.

I've seen this on East Coast schools and West Coast schools for 20 years!

Then they turn around and ask for more money. Just a very wasteful society, that's the problem.

Index,

I couldn't agree more with your comment about the schools, & a very wasteful society. I find that retailers, & most home owners do the same. Although the latter two are footing their own bill, they are contributing GREATLY to increased costs as we keep progressing. Bone chilling in the summer, & an arid feeling in the winter.

In a society that purports, & appears to have abundance, & excess in some areas, there are many where we are lacking!!

May your day have been Well!
God Bless You! Kelly
 
I don't give a shit what europe drives. Europe is a basket case polictically, morally, and economically. The reason gas is so expensive there is only due to their bloodsucking goverments taxing fuel so much.

In 3 generations we will not use oil for energy. We will develop cold fusion along with anti gravity technology that will solve our energy problems once and for all.

Why do you think the Arabs pump as much oil as they do?? Don't you realize that if they thought we would always use oil they would cut production way back?? They want to sell it while people still need it.

John
 
Quote from steve46:

Hey:
In my opinion, the refinery issue, the state requirement for specific additives, maintenance schedules, OPEC quotas, etc are all just a scam to justify elevated pricing at the retail level. I believe the big players (corporate and government) control the agenda. As a result, I believe that as we move nearer to the US presidential election, we will see that somehow pricing drops. This will be explained away by folks who are "authorities" and have good reasons to offer (discovery of new sources, addition of new refineries, end of maintenance season, OPEC members cheating on quotas, etc) This will happen just in time to try to get President Bush re-elected, and it will have to happen against the backdrop of an improving economy (jobs reports) and stock markets (S&P trading tonight at 1131 and change). Can't wait to dig this post up in 4-5 months to see whether I was right. Best Regards, Steve46

P.S. by the way limitdown, your comments about China are valid however I believe China's economy is overheating and will need to be controlled by changes to the currency within 6 months. If that happens, we may see an impact on demand (decreasing) as China's businesses find it more difficult to obtain capital.

so your opinion focuses on the politicalization of oil prices relative to gasoline and how that touches everyone's pocket.

they say in Econ 9101 (Grad level) that we vote everytime we spend our resouirces to consume goods.

it would appear that the higher the price rises the worse the vote of no confidence in those whom raised the price upon us; as if to punish us all for not allowing drilling in the Artic Wildlife region of Alaska.


there does seem to be basis behind the suspision that the control over anti-polution additives have contributed some $.20 or more per gallon to this artificially contrived TAX INCREASE on us all.....

how's that: "give tax breaks with one hand, take back with the other"?
 
Quote from IndexTrader:

It's really hard to reason with more refineries. What happened to the conservation movement of the late 70's/early 80's?
Instead. the government's policy the last few years has been that it's good to be buying gas-guzzling vehicles as long as it keeps the economy going!
The American highway is a JOKE!
It's full of these monsters. Usually with 1 person inside.
Have you been to Europe lately? A lot more economical vehicles over there, and they're stylish to beat!
You don't feel the need to get a monster truck yourself because they're practically not available. (Of course, they wouldn't fit in many of their streets) but that's another issue.

When was the last time you saw a TV commercial encouraging people to use less energy?
They have such things against smoking, forest fires, drugs. Why not energy? Because it may shrink the economy for a little while?

Yeah,

its become fasionable to drive large, just like the (w)rappers, movie stars and other (so called) wealthy people....
 
Quote from JerryBroseph:

Price of crude is actually going to the mid 20's. Cover your longs, and go short.


please provide other websites, research, news stories or other sources to either support or confirm your statements....
 
Quote from damir00:

oil hasn't been going up in price, the dollar has been going down in value. there is nothing going on here beyond the white house's weak dollar policy - which is why they want everyone distracted and talking about saudis and refineries and g-d only knows what else - anything but the falling dollar.

in euroland they're paying the same price for a barrel oil as they were 2 years ago.


very good observation

how did we miss this essential component?

you're partially right here, as it (oil / barrell prices) are a world commoditiy, similar to the US Dollar, similar to Gold, similar to Wheat prices...

it is wholely logical that as the USD has fallen in a constructed pattern, that the pricing of other commodities has remained constant...


this still represents a huge tax increase upon the US populace whether or not they received the tax reductions or not.

as usually, the poor pay and the others party!
 
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