Off shore trading
- Thread starter praetorian2
- Start date
>I want the guys who soros uses. Lets talk more about this though and the exact way to do it.
To save you a little time and money, here are some things you will need to establish to accomplish what you are trying to do.
A TRUST is a legal entity created when a person (grantor) TRANSFERS OWNERSHIP of property to a trustee to be held for the benefit of another person or entity. After 1986, no more than 5% of the trusts assets may revert to the grantor or spouse upon termination of the trust. If it fails this test then the trust income is taxed to the grantor.
A CORPORATION is an artificial entity created under state law. Meaning it can enter into contracts. It must have free transferability of ownership, continuity of life, and centralized management. It provides limited liability as long as you don't "Pierce the Corporate Veil".
More tax mumbo jumbo:
BUSINESS PURPOSE CONCEPT
First of all, to set up a "Legal" trust or corporation and deduct expenses you have to have a PURPOSE. And that purpose can not be to avoid paying taxes. Soros runs a hedge fund that takes in money and invests in markets all over the world. Soros and his employees travel the world for business.
SUBSTANCE OVER FORM DOCTRINE
This states that the taxability of of a transaction is determined by the REALITY of the transaction rather than APPEARANCE. This means that to be accepted it has to have a business purpose other than tax avoidance. (You can't have your brokerage statements mailed to a PO Box in Liberia while trading from Anytown USA) If you live in Liberia for 330 days a year you are good as gold.
ARMS LENGTH transaction
Think Enron. To be considered Arms length and receive the intended tax benefits all parties must bargain for their individual benefit. You can't sell your wife/brother/corporation stock at a loss and take a write off. It has to be sold to an unrelated party.
ASSIGNMENT OF INCOME
This simply put meas that if an entity earns the income, it pays the tax on the income. You can't transfer the income to another trust or entity to avoid the tax.
Meet these things and you are good as gold. It also helps if you can find CASE LAW to support your position. CCH which may be at your library allows you to search for cases similar to yours. You want to see a case with similar facts that received a favorable ruling. The higher the court wins (you can often search by case to see if your "case" has been cited in another court).
Here is the IRS link if you want to see some cases that didn't meet the test.
http://www.treas.gov/irs/ci/tax_fraud/docabusivetrustschemes.htm
A TRUST is a legal entity created when a person (grantor) TRANSFERS OWNERSHIP of property to a trustee to be held for the benefit of another person or entity. After 1986, no more than 5% of the trusts assets may revert to the grantor or spouse upon termination of the trust. If it fails this test then the trust income is taxed to the grantor.
A CORPORATION is an artificial entity created under state law. Meaning it can enter into contracts. It must have free transferability of ownership, continuity of life, and centralized management. It provides limited liability as long as you don't "Pierce the Corporate Veil".
More tax mumbo jumbo:
BUSINESS PURPOSE CONCEPT
First of all, to set up a "Legal" trust or corporation and deduct expenses you have to have a PURPOSE. And that purpose can not be to avoid paying taxes. Soros runs a hedge fund that takes in money and invests in markets all over the world. Soros and his employees travel the world for business.
SUBSTANCE OVER FORM DOCTRINE
This states that the taxability of of a transaction is determined by the REALITY of the transaction rather than APPEARANCE. This means that to be accepted it has to have a business purpose other than tax avoidance. (You can't have your brokerage statements mailed to a PO Box in Liberia while trading from Anytown USA) If you live in Liberia for 330 days a year you are good as gold.
ARMS LENGTH transaction
Think Enron. To be considered Arms length and receive the intended tax benefits all parties must bargain for their individual benefit. You can't sell your wife/brother/corporation stock at a loss and take a write off. It has to be sold to an unrelated party.
ASSIGNMENT OF INCOME
This simply put meas that if an entity earns the income, it pays the tax on the income. You can't transfer the income to another trust or entity to avoid the tax.
Meet these things and you are good as gold. It also helps if you can find CASE LAW to support your position. CCH which may be at your library allows you to search for cases similar to yours. You want to see a case with similar facts that received a favorable ruling. The higher the court wins (you can often search by case to see if your "case" has been cited in another court).
Here is the IRS link if you want to see some cases that didn't meet the test.
http://www.treas.gov/irs/ci/tax_fraud/docabusivetrustschemes.htm
Hello Metooxx,
You seem very knowledgeable about all this. I am the person Gary Stevens was talking about on 4-23-02.
I am a swiss citizen, new to the trading business.
I know Switzerland doesn't levy taxes on capital gains but I don't know if it still applies if stock trading is your business. Could anybody answer this ?
Do I really need to set up an IBC or can I leave my money here in Switzerland and open a retail account with IB for example, to trade in US stock exchanges ? Would it be US-tax-free (do I need to file any US tax form) ?
Also, could I appoint somebody physically in the USA to do the trading for my account ?
Thank you very much,
Quote from spieler:
Gary Stevens
Tell your french friend to send me an email in french .
I konw that kind of problem and solutions of courseas i was in the same case several years ago and find a solution.
Bonjour Spieler,
Je suis désolé de te répondre si tard, je commence seulement à m'intéresser au sujet du day-trading.
Je ne suis pas français, mais Suisse romand.
I know Switzerland doesn't levy taxes on capital gains but I don't know if it still applies if stock trading is your business. Could anybody answer this ?
Do I really need to set up an IBC or can I leave my money here in Switzerland and open a retail account with IB for example, to trade in US stock exchanges ? Would it be US-tax-free (do I need to file any US tax form) ?
Also, could I appoint somebody physically in the USA to do the trading for my account ?
Thank you very much,
A person not wanting to go offshore - who likes living in the mountains - (Great Skiing - Fishing - Hunting) - don't forget the "Cowboy State" ....WYOMING ......
No personal income taxes - No Corporate taxes -
But baby ya gotta be a snow bunny to live there Winters !
I lived in Jackson Hole for several years - just to ski that big hill every day - verrrry nice.
IMO - it's some of the Purtiest country in the whole wide world - from Tetons to Yellowstone - Bighorns to Wind Rivers, Medicine Bow to Flaming Gorge - it don't get better than that !
No personal income taxes - No Corporate taxes -
But baby ya gotta be a snow bunny to live there Winters !
I lived in Jackson Hole for several years - just to ski that big hill every day - verrrry nice.
IMO - it's some of the Purtiest country in the whole wide world - from Tetons to Yellowstone - Bighorns to Wind Rivers, Medicine Bow to Flaming Gorge - it don't get better than that !
Salut
Je suis à peu près dans la meme situation. Je suis allemand et près de là ou vous etes.
Je suis aussi interesse à la meme chose.
Donc en Suisse one ne paie pas d'impot sur le capital gains?
Je croit qu'e c'est la meme chose en Hollande, Ã condition que les revenus son aquis ,je crois en dehors de la Hollande.
Laissez moi ,s'il vous plais;savoir quel resultat vous avez.
Ici en Allemagne il y a une novelle loi qui serais bien . On paierais seulement 15% d'impot sur ca et c'est tout.
J'attend pour voir.
Je suis à peu près dans la meme situation. Je suis allemand et près de là ou vous etes.
Je suis aussi interesse à la meme chose.
Donc en Suisse one ne paie pas d'impot sur le capital gains?
Je croit qu'e c'est la meme chose en Hollande, Ã condition que les revenus son aquis ,je crois en dehors de la Hollande.
Laissez moi ,s'il vous plais;savoir quel resultat vous avez.
Ici en Allemagne il y a une novelle loi qui serais bien . On paierais seulement 15% d'impot sur ca et c'est tout.
J'attend pour voir.
def
Sponsor
swissbro,
metoxx was helpful but not exactly correct with the way IB handles things.
You can fund the account at IB in Swiss Francs, Euros, or USD. If you fill out the appropriate tax form (usually W8-BEN) funds (dividends, profits) will not be withheld.
If you'd like to speak to someone in French, try calling the European help desk (based in Zug) at 0800 199 373 or +41 41 726 9500
metoxx was helpful but not exactly correct with the way IB handles things.
You can fund the account at IB in Swiss Francs, Euros, or USD. If you fill out the appropriate tax form (usually W8-BEN) funds (dividends, profits) will not be withheld.
If you'd like to speak to someone in French, try calling the European help desk (based in Zug) at 0800 199 373 or +41 41 726 9500