Odd Lots?

I'm not complaining either, but I'd point out that you can already exclude BOX and/or AMEX in TWS and its still called SMART. Surely anyone who tweaks this option understands what they're doing and just wants a little more control over SMART.

We are still however faced a contradiction between IB SMART thinking that PHLX/PSE/AMEX sometimes give the best execution, and the collective wisdom of the elitetrader options forum voters in the poll mentioned above thinking that those exchanges always give the worst execution.
 
Also the fact that box is the only exchange so far that has given me a price improvement of 2c when closing my 3lots pos of aapl otm calls on the 12th of Jan 2006.
 
Quote from Bitstream:

here's the trade confirmation screenshot:
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I see the commission was 75 cents a contract. So you did use SMART, and lucked into to getting BOX? And then at BOX you were in turn lucky enough to get price improvement? (BOX says on their web site they succeed in doing it 50% of the time) So you saved $6.00 via the 2 cent BOX price improvement on the sale.
 
Quote from luh3417:

I see the commission was 75 cents a contract. So you did use SMART, and lucked into to getting BOX and ISE? And then at BOX were in turn lucky enough to get price improvement? (BOX says on their web site they succeed in doing it 50% of the time)
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Exactly...this is the only transaction gone trough box and getting price improvement, what does it tell u?

That prolly box gives u price improvement most of the times...
 
I hope my trade example coupled with these stats and et'ers sentiment in the matter should satisfy ib reps that SMART needs to have an option to let us route to our fav exchanges and that it is in our interest to have the chance of getting the best possible price:

http://www.Bostonoptions.com
 
To throw in some more data, I've seen this behavior at all the exchanges, not just the maligned PHLX and AMEX. Namely, just to confirm what may be obvious to you seasoned traders, I often set the new best bid or ask with a limit order for a particular option contract, and several interesting events follow. 1. shortly (not immediately) thereafter, generally a couple few hundred other bids will show up on top of me 2. some of those people appear to get filled before me. 3. I feel like I'm the last one filled, only when the underlying has eventually moved and we're about to move to the next nickel/dime bid/ask. In other words, its not "first in, first out", and I guess the market makers have no rule governing this, or if they do, its not enforced. It seems like its more like, "first in, last out". That was why I originally thought it was because I was a tiny pissant trader with one or two lots. I still think this may contribute to the way I'm treated, but it could simply be part of the larger issue that I have no pull and the market makers have more important clients to make happy. I'm watching it happen to me even as I type. I want to sell my 2 NVDA APR06 55 calls, market is 55/65, I lob in an ask of 60, I see my 2 contracts there as the spread changes to 55/65, then 5 or 10 seconds later we see 102 contracts, then down to 74, while I still sit there with my dick in my hand, like an extra on a porno set, then the bid ask moves to 50/60, so I resubmit at 55, for a few moments I'm the only guy at 55, then 100 more pile on, then many more, then the number decreases, as everyone but me gets filled. OK now we move to 45/55 as I chase this garbage down the drain and wonder why I play against a stacked deck. The city has a million stories, but mine is playing out on CBOE this time. I did make some money on those BLS calls on Tuesday though...
 
Quote from luh3417:

To throw in some more data, I've seen this behavior at all the exchanges, not just the maligned PHLX and AMEX. Namely, just to confirm what may be obvious to you seasoned traders, I often set the new best bid or ask with a limit order for a particular option contract, and several interesting events follow. 1. shortly (not immediately) thereafter, generally a couple few hundred other bids will show up on top of me 2. some of those people appear to get filled before me. 3. I feel like I'm the last one filled, only when the underlying has eventually moved and we're about to move to the next nickel/dime bid/ask. In other words, its not "first in, first out", and I guess the market makers have no rule governing this, or if they do, its not enforced. It seems like its more like, "first in, last out". That was why I originally thought it was because I was a tiny pissant trader with one or two lots. I still think this may contribute to the way I'm treated, but it could simply be part of the larger issue that I have no pull and the market makers have more important clients to make happy. I'm watching it happen to me even as I type. I want to sell my 2 NVDA APR06 55 calls, market is 55/65, I lob in an ask of 60, I see my 2 contracts there as the spread changes to 55/65, then 5 or 10 seconds later we see 102 contracts, then down to 74, while I still sit there with my dick in my hand, like an extra on a porno set, then the bid ask moves to 50/60, so I resubmit at 55, for a few moments I'm the only guy at 55, then 100 more pile on, then many more, then the number decreases, as everyone but me gets filled. OK now we move to 45/55 as I chase this garbage down the drain and wonder why I play against a stacked deck. The city has a million stories, but mine is playing out on CBOE this time. I did make some money on those BLS calls on Tuesday though...
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Did it ever occur to you that it is just the size of the bid/ask changing and no actual trading is taking place. I mean, the market is a dynamic thing - someone submits an order and then cancels it or changes it.

In order to get proof that you're sitting with your dick in your hand while others get fills is to look at time and sales, that's the only way to see what got filled at what price and when.
 
I agree with you that it is possible. But it happens so regularly that I doubt people are like, OK here is a bid, and then a minute later they cancel it, with the underlying not moving. Though yes, NVDA underlying was dropping, and things are a bit lock step since options are in nickel/dimes. I only trade the more liquid options, but still it can take a while, they're still nowhere near as liquid as stocks. The "last trade price" doesn't seem to me to always be updated religiously. Anyone can confirm that there is no rule about "first in first out", its just up to the pleasure of the MM? How do I get ahold of the time and sales data?
 
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