Odd lots and IB

M

mgrs

Hi everybody !

Having not yet made a fortune :( with my trading, i have a small account and have been used to trade stocks and ETF in odd lots, without any problem up to now.
But This week i was nicely trying to short few IEF and buy few DBA with TWS and systematically got the message : "Exchange does not accept odd lot orders".
:eek:
I did it for months... And did it few days ago... And it went smoothly...
:confused:
I contacted IB and they (in a quite unpleasant manner) answered me that "it has always been so, and that my hundreds of trade were probably anomalies that managed to go through the limitations"
I've been looking around on internet, on the NYSE, the AMEX, NASD, SEC and haven't found a confirmation about what i was told by IB (quite the contrary indeed).

Did any of you encountered the same problem ?
What can be done about it ?

Many thx in advance and good trading to yall
M.
 
yeah, same garbage happened to me the other day. Only seems to be with AMEX traded stocks. So, no USO, GLD,GLD,GID, basically, no etfs.

This really stinks and their answers as to why have been totally BS.

"oh, it's on Island and brut, so enter it there", whaaaa?

These guys havn't a clue.

They told me the same thing that it;s never been alowed.

I feel your pain
 
Ah ah !!!
I'm starting to get some interesting information about that.
I just talked to some friends of mine who called the AMEX and guess what ???
All ETFs except HOLDRS are tradable in odd lots on their exchange !!!
So to say things in simple language :
INTERACTIVE BROKERS are LYING and BULLSHITING their client !!!
Spread the word : Opening an account at IB is may be not such a good idea anymore.
So Sad... Because they used to be really good. Actually the best for "small capital traders".
:(
 
Step 1 - READ the info on the IB site.

Step 2 - FOLLOW the intructions.

Step 3 - USE ANOTHER BROKER if you don't like IB.

Step 4 - Thanks for your cooperation.


Odd Lot OrdersDescription

Odd lot orders (less than 100 shares or with an odd lot component, for example 225) must be routed to INET (or IB Smart). Odd lots will only trade if a matching trade is found. No other exchanges are available for odd lot trading at this time.

NOTE: Exchanges frequently alter their odd lot policies. Specific products (for example, certain ETFs) may have specific rules regarding odd lot trading. Due to the lack of exchange standardization regarding the handling of odd lots, IB does not recommend using them at this time.

For more information, contact IB Customer Service.

 
Dear IB employee...

My friends and I did contact the AMEX and they do accept odd lots. I think that they might be the ultimate authority about what is accepted or not on their exchange... Don't you?
On top of it, i got from one of your collegue at the customer service that it's a due to a recent senior management decision... At least they should assume their decision and not put it on the back of the exchagnes.


About INET/IB SMART:
We used i and the order got rejected not unfilled.

About contacting customer service... They just repeat what you've just said, which on top of being useless i actually untrue... Sorry... Call the AMEX if you like... Check by yourself...
 
my IB rep told me to use Island or Brut, not smart orders, as I HAD been using for MONTHS. It didn't work.

And yes, it says right on the AMEX website that you can buy as little as 1 share of any of their ETFs.

So, I ask you, brilliant IB employee, or IB apologist, why can I not do now, what I have always been able to do?
What changed?

Why is it exclusive to AMEX traded stocks?

I wish somebody would get this story straight.


here's my current exchange with IB guy

(out of order, as the IB webticket sorts it out to add to the confusion) they cant even put a conversation in order


Date/Time : 2007/02/15 11:07
Status :
LV1
Summary : odd lot trades on AMEX
Description : Up until today, I have had no problem executing small lot trades on QID, QLD, SDS, USO, etc.
Today, no such luck. It seems to be a problem only with AMEX listed stocks.
I contacted AMEX and they said it is not a problem to purchase odd lots.

Their website even quotes,
"What is the minimum size purchase of an exchange traded fund?
Investors can purchase as little as one share."

So what gives?
Why is IB restricting small lots on the AMEX and not any other exchange?

thank you in advance for your response.



Date/Time Sender Comment
2007/02/15 11:07 me : Up until today, I have had no problem executing small lot trades on QID, QLD, SDS, USO, etc.
Today, no such luck. It seems to be a problem only with AMEX listed stocks.
I contacted AMEX and they said it is not a problem to purchase odd lots.

Their website even quotes,
"What is the minimum size purchase of an exchange traded fund?
Investors can purchase as little as one share."

So what gives?
Why is IB restricting small lots on the AMEX and not any other exchange?

thank you in advance for your response.
2007/02/16 08:36 IBCS : lackey No, this did not just take effect. However, As Nasdaq is merging quotes Island and Brut quotes may not be available for all products. Therefore it is becoming more noticeable.
2007/02/15 20:01 me : so did this just take effect?, because I've always used the smart orders.

I'll try one of the ecn's you suggested tomorrow
2007/02/15 15:23 IBCS : lackey Opening Odd lots through the IB system may only be submitted to Island or Brut. If they are not quoting a specific security you may not be able to enter an opening odd lot.
2007/02/16 09:43 me : ok, island doesen't work, and neither does isld.

So you tell me, how do I porchase amex stocks.
2007/02/16 09:48 IBCS : lackey Once again unless there is a market displayed for a particular security on Island or BRUT it will be possible to purchase odd lots. You may consider entering a round lot order.
2007/02/16 11:27 me : my account is not big enough to purchase 100 shares I can only do 20,40,50 lots on these particular securities, if you want to give me actual margin in my "margin" IRA account then fine, I'll accept. In the meantime, please tell me what I gotta do to purchase 40 shares at a time on these AMEX stocks like I have been for the past 6 months or so.
2007/02/16 09:44 me : I meant to say island and brut
 
If you don't like us go someplace else. The subtext, of course, is "Go quietly. Don't complain in the marketplace where others might hear you and be forewarned." I too have had occasion to try to reason with Interactive Brokers using information available on their web site. They are rude and unhelpful. Inexpensive if you are trading stocks or FOREX. Crazy cancellation/change fees on orders. Double margin requirements on IRON CONDORS (margin for both the bear call spread and the bull put spread. And did I mention rude, rude, RUDE.
 
The point is that they gave no warning of this change in policy. Plus, the changed policy is not in writing anywhere or even clear. What is the exact policy.


In fact, when I placed the order, it did not tell me that odd lots were not allowed. Instead it took the order and processes the first 100 and left the other 32 as pending; however, instead of pending the order was immediately cancelled but no message was sent to tell me this.

Then after waiting on hold for 20 minutes, they act like I should have known it was cancelled although no screen showed this at any time


Is it all ETFs or just AMEX ones that must be round lot ordered?

Anyhow, everyone should at least send a comment under the accounts page directed to senior management. It will probably do nothing; however, the complaint should be lack of warning regarding the change in policy as well as it still not being defined along with a request to process the odd lot orders. There is plenty of volume in these etfs.
 
The sad part is, these idiots don't even have a consistant policy about it. On Tuesday I was able to buy 3 odd lots of QID. The same QID traded on AMEX that the say I am not able to do. What Sucks, is I couldn't sell it and re buy it as the market swung huge, out of fear that I probably would not be able to re-buy.

12 million shares traded on Friday, I guess that's not liquid enough for these guys and their super high tech trading electronic computer with "smart" ordering.

You think we'll ever get a solution, let alone an explanation?

LOLOL
 
Till last week I used to trade USO 50/60 shares with out any problem at IB. Since last week not accepting less than 100 shares.
RTH & IYT odd lots were are not accepted even before.
But SPY /IWM which I trade mostly odd lots 50/60 shares goes thro no problem
 
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