Occupiers-What Do You Want?

Quote from Maverick74:

Max, there is a resistance group forming. They are called the 53%. This is the group in this country that actually "pays" taxes. They are starting to speak up. Let's see what happens. I better hurry up and pick a group before the war starts. LOL.
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You know its funny cause if these far left loons had their way, they would make Chicago keep going further and further left until they have chased away any business that once operated there or had any plans of operating there.

Then when chicago started to look like Detroit, they would continue to blame corporate america and never put 2 and 2 together, that it was their own bullshit that chased away all the businesses.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

I can prove you wrong. Both in NY and Chicago people have gone down to the protest site and actually offered jobs to these kids and they turned them down. Even when asked on TV if Goldman offered them a job for a million dollars a year they would not take it...ever!!!!! Listen man, I respect your viewpoint, but I honestly think this is about something much bigger then jobs and healthcare. They want to change the "system". That's the difference. To be fair, the tea party people also want to "change" the system, although I think their ideas are slightly less radical. Asking government to control their spending is not a radical idea in my view. Both sides would like to end the Fed which obviously is a little more radical.

But I honestly do believe you are the one being intellectually dishonest. I have talked to these kids on my way home from work every day. They don't want jobs, they want a different system. Now perhaps from that system they believe the jobs will be there for them and they might be right. The fact of the matter is, they will never get what they want, which is full blown socialism. Although, the irony is, I think we are headed that way regardless. Sooner or later the rich will leave this country and I believe that socialism is inevitable.
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Well, I guess it just comes down to how you and I judge where the mean is in this data set. Do I trust one guy's observations from talking to a few people, who is ideologically on the opposite spectrum as it is? Is that enough or is there other data out there? I thought the Economist was a fair enough source, but I guess not.

If you just go to that 99% website you'll see some freeloaders, but also a range of stories about people losing their health insurance, getting laid off then getting cancer, complaining about the bailouts etc. I guess, using your logic, those collective observations are greater than your conversations, thus proving you wrong.

Look man, I only take the contrary position because you're an even keel guy. You may lean a bit with the fringe, but at the end of the day you seem to have an interest in understanding varying sides to the story. Sometimes being objective allows for better solutions to problems, although it's not as fun as beating down straw men.
 
Quote from Samsara:

Well, I guess it just comes down to how you and I judge where the mean is in this data set. Do I trust one guy's observations from talking to a few people, who is ideologically on the opposite spectrum as it is? Is that enough or is there other data out there? I thought the Economist was a fair enough source, but I guess not.

If you just go to that 99% website you'll see some freeloaders, but also a range of stories about people losing their health insurance, getting laid off then getting cancer, complaining about the bailouts etc. I guess, using your logic, those collective observations are greater than your conversations, thus proving you wrong.

Look man, I only take the contrary position because you're an even keel guy. You may lean a bit with the fringe, but at the end of the day you seem to have an interest in understanding varying sides to the story. Sometimes being objective allows for better solutions to problems, although it's not as fun as beating down straw men.
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I'm not disagreeing with you that there are sad stories in the group. In fact, all of them are sad stories. And I don't believe they are all freeloaders. What I do believe though is that this has been coming for a long time. Even during the good times when everyone was working and had homes, this was starting to boil under the surface. Hell, to be honest with you, it started under Reagan. And that is the divide in this country between free markets and government.

These protesters want to change the system. And I believe them when they say that. They really believe the system is unfair and quick fixes and patchwork legislation won't give them the long term changes they really desire. These people want the system changed for good and they wanted it changed from a meritocracy to mediocrity. I respect their opinion. In the end, I think they will win. Probably not for awhile, but eventually the US will look like Detroit. And I for one will no longer call the US my home. That will be a sad day when it happens, but I believe there is no stopping it. The system will crash under it's own weight.

As Tyler Durden likes to say, "on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."
 
Quote from Ricter:

"I work 60 hours a week on a salary that pays me for 45 hours." That guy sounds like a poster boy for "commies", or he should be.
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OK, so that went right over your labor leaning head. What he is saying is that his job requires him to work 45 hours, but he works another 15 to get ahead. He doesn't work the extra 15 because he gets paid to. He is actually willing to sacrifice the time for the dividends down the road. You know Ricter, some of us use the term entrepreneur. Look up the word. LOL.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

I'm not disagreeing with you that there are sad stories in the group. In fact, all of them are sad stories. And I don't believe they are all freeloaders. What I do believe though is that this has been coming for a long time. Even during the good times when everyone was working and had homes, this was starting to boil under the surface. Hell, to be honest with you, it started under Reagan. And that is the divide in this country between free markets and government.

These protesters want to change the system. And I believe them when they say that. They really believe the system is unfair and quick fixes and patchwork legislation won't give them the long term changes they really desire. These people want the system changed for good and they wanted it changed from a meritocracy to mediocrity. I respect their opinion. In the end, I think they will win. Probably not for awhile, but eventually the US will look like Detroit. And I for one will no longer call the US my home. That will be a sad day when it happens, but I believe there is no stopping it. The system will crash under it's own weight.

As Tyler Durden likes to say, "on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."
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There are real dangers. If these groups keep getting ignore/mocked they will have nothing to lose.

It is like trying to pick a fight with a guy who has nothing to lose. Or fading a strong trending market, you're going to get your head handed to you.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

OK, so that went right over your labor leaning head. What he is saying is that his job requires him to work 45 hours, but he works another 15 to get ahead. He doesn't work the extra 15 because he gets paid to. He is actually willing to sacrifice the time for the dividends down the road. You know Ricter, some of us use the term entrepreneur. Look up the word. LOL.
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Ahh, I see. My bad. Many folks are working as I've described, because of layoffs in their departments.
 
Quote from Maverick74:

I'm not disagreeing with you that there are sad stories in the group. In fact, all of them are sad stories. And I don't believe they are all freeloaders. What I do believe though is that this has been coming for a long time. Even during the good times when everyone was working and had homes, this was starting to boil under the surface. Hell, to be honest with you, it started under Reagan. And that is the divide in this country between free markets and government.

These protesters want to change the system. And I believe them when they say that. They really believe the system is unfair and quick fixes and patchwork legislation won't give them the long term changes they really desire. These people want the system changed for good and they wanted it changed from a meritocracy to mediocrity. I respect their opinion. In the end, I think they will win. Probably not for awhile, but eventually the US will look like Detroit. And I for one will no longer call the US my home. That will be a sad day when it happens, but I believe there is no stopping it. The system will crash under it's own weight.

As Tyler Durden likes to say, "on a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."
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There ya go -- see that's closer to seeing the picture. Yes, they do want the system changed for good. Whether or not that's feasible is a rational discussion. But it's much different from pretending everyone down there wants a communist revolution and free iPads.

As I said, there's plenty of room to debate the implicit assumptions of their arguments: for instance, that subsidized health care coverage will make life better and not drive up costs, or that refusing to bail out the banks would not have had dire consequences, etc. This is on the order of policy and economics, rather than talk radio screeching, which is far down the rabbit hole.

Good to see you're not too far gone. :D
 
Quote from Samsara:

There ya go -- see that's closer to seeing the picture. Yes, they do want the system changed for good. Whether or not that's feasible is a rational discussion. But it's much different from pretending everyone down there wants a communist revolution and free iPads.

As I said, there's plenty of room to debate the implicit assumptions of their arguments: for instance, that subsidized health care coverage will make life better and not drive up costs, or that refusing to bail out the banks would not have had dire consequences, etc. This is on the order of policy and economics, rather than talk radio screeching, which is far down the rabbit hole.

Good to see you're not too far gone. :D
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He's bi-polar, give it a few hours or days and he'll make the exact opposite argument.
 
Quote from denner:

He's bi-polar, give it a few hours or days and he'll make the exact opposite argument.
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Not bi-polar, but I do like to argue. Being agreeable is boring.
 
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