Obsessed with trading.

Just some insight from someone who was in your shoes only a few years ago.

Your comments about jumping around from learning about 30-year bond/stock correlation, to exploring the coffee markets, etc. totally resonate with me. I found (and still find) the markets totally fascinating for all the same reasons.

I dabbled with stocks with a modest amount of success for a couple years, then moved to day-trading index futures. There was a summer semester where I was able to trade from 11:45 to close, everyday. I was disciplined, used my strategy, and had a winning percentage around 80%. I was in the zone because I was able to nearly fully dedicate myself to what I was doing. However, when that semester ended, the workload increased, and grades started to suffer (from ~3.7 to ~3.4 in engineering classes). I wasn't able to apply myself in classes because I was pre-occupied with what the market was doing. Additionally, the classes were enough of a distraction from the market that I was no longer the winning trader I was before.

Looking back, now that its been a few years, here are some comments I have. None of the I-Banks I interviewed for gave a shit that I developed my own trading systems. As long as you show a strong interest in the markets, the thing that matters most are your grades and how well you can communicate. Unless you're one of the very-very few out there that can consistently pull money out of the markets (and I strongly recommend you be honest with yourself when you answer this question), your best way to make money in the markets is to work in the industry (banks, hedge funds, PE, etc.) and not trade personally. You can make great money, more consistently, have more options open to you in the future, and have a lower stress life (just my opinion).

So IMO, your best bet is to understand that you have your whole life ahead of you to trade/work/whatever, but only the next few years to do the best you can in school. Learn as much as you can without distracting from your studies. Definitely don't trade to make money (its medial in the scheme of things). In my experience, its this type of introspection and control which is really valuable in trading and life in general.

Good Luck! :)
 
Quote from tommymoose:

Just some insight from someone who was in your shoes only a few years ago.

Your comments about jumping around from learning about 30-year bond/stock correlation, to exploring the coffee markets, etc. totally resonate with me. I found (and still find) the markets totally fascinating for all the same reasons.

I dabbled with stocks with a modest amount of success for a couple years, then moved to day-trading index futures. There was a summer semester where I was able to trade from 11:45 to close, everyday. I was disciplined, used my strategy, and had a winning percentage around 80%. I was in the zone because I was able to nearly fully dedicate myself to what I was doing. However, when that semester ended, the workload increased, and grades started to suffer (from ~3.7 to ~3.4 in engineering classes). I wasn't able to apply myself in classes because I was pre-occupied with what the market was doing. However the classes were enough of a distraction from the market that I was no longer the winning trader I was before.

Looking back, now that its been a few years, here are some comments I have. None of the I-Banks I interviewed for gave a shit that I developed my own trading systems. As long as you show a strong interest in the markets, the thing that matters most are your grades and how well you can communicate. Unless you're one of the very-very few out there that can consistently pull money out of the markets (and I strongly recommend you be honest with yourself when you answer this question), your best way to make money in the markets is to work in the industry (banks, hedge funds, PE, etc.) and not trade personally.

So IMO, your best bet is to understand that you have your whole life ahead of you to trade/work/whatever, but only the next few years to do the best you can in school. Its this type of introspection and control which is really valuable in trading and life in general.

Good Luck! :)
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Thanks.
I can read the insights you are giving me -- you give really good perspective!

From now on I'll just trade my current system I have and make 15% a year, and focus on school/jobs.

Most of the kids in the elite portfolio honours classes have 3.7-4.0s, are employed at RBC Capital Markets, Scotia, etc.. (in canada these are the top firms), but know two shits about trading--

I need to step-up my game and focus on my grades.. I was going into finals with 3.9 and now will close out the semester with 3.50-3.75!! Oh well, it's still my first year of studies and I can improve (and I will)..

On the bright side, at least I realized early..
BUT THANK YOU AGAIN!
 
Quote from exaltedangel09:

Thanks I really mean it.
I guess the best thing to do is to just trade the current system I have and make 15%/year, and focus on school...
Most of the kids in the elite portfolio honours classes have 3.7-4.0s, are employed at RBC Capital Markets, Scotia, etc.. (in canada these are the top firms), but know two shits about trading--
I need to step-up my game and focus on my grades!!

Especially since I have my whole career in-front of me, and I don't want to ruin it just to develop 40-60% returns!
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Nice... I interviewed at Scotias NY office. The total-return-swap desk was pulling it in during the credit crisis since you canucks were the only ones with capital!

Your plan sounds good. Focus on the grades and know that the guys in your portfolio honors classes may be your competitors at interviews. Its at this point that you have a nice little angle you can take regarding your real trading experience. If they find it interesting and can relate, you can really let them have the details and you'll probably get the job based on how unique your knowledge is. If they don't (which has been my experience) leave it at the mention, its a nice check mark, and move on with the generic questions ;)
 
Quote from exaltedangel09:

Thanks.
I can read the insights you are giving me -- you give really good perspective!

From now on I'll just trade my current system I have and make 15% a year, and focus on school/jobs.

Most of the kids in the elite portfolio honours classes have 3.7-4.0s, are employed at RBC Capital Markets, Scotia, etc.. (in canada these are the top firms), but know two shits about trading--

I need to step-up my game and focus on my grades.. I was going into finals with 3.9 and now will close out the semester with 3.50-3.75!! Oh well, it's still my first year of studies and I can improve (and I will)..

On the bright side, at least I realized early..
BUT THANK YOU AGAIN!
More...

If you want to get a real job at the end of the rainbow, grades are not enough. You need to aggressively pursue some internships, even unpaid.
 
Feel free to do your CMT if you want but Jack Schwager said in Getting Started in Technical Analysis that he has looked at systems for 20 years and never found an advantage of complex mathematical formulas over simple formulas like n=7. I like that book and Ed Ponsi's book on Forex. An obsession on trading isn't that bad if you're just risking a little if you're still losing.

The Irwin Guide to Using the Wall Street Journal is a pretty "thick" book if you want to spend time reading time-consuming material.
 
Quote from clambill:

Feel free to do your CMT if you want but Jack Schwager said in Getting Started in Technical Analysis that he has looked at systems for 20 years and never found an advantage of complex mathematical formulas over simple formulas like n=7. I like that book and Ed Ponsi's book on Forex. An obsession on trading isn't that bad if you're just risking a little if you're still losing.

The Irwin Guide to Using the Wall Street Journal is a pretty "thick" book if you want to spend time reading time-consuming material.
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I might pick up Irwin's book for a summer reading :P..
As for the CMT, I think it can only add fluff to my CV.
Can't hurt, can it?

Technicals are pretty much garbage in a secular bull market, I must agree, but let's be honest, technical analyst gave many sell signals at 12500 on the Dow!! Check yourself.. crossovers.. lower lows.. Dow Theory confirming a bear... It does have it's uses, I do agree that keeping it simple is best. Price is key IMHO.

My obsession is not losing me money. my account is doing fine [well its not outperforming the SPX-, rather it's losing me time that could of been better spend elsewhere/more productive.

A couple of hundred dollars/thousand dollars on a $25,000 account is meaningless to ,e in what's ahead in my life. That's what I'm getting at.
I know people who are getting paid bonuses equal to my trading account.. That's a huge ROI and these people are 23-24.
 
Quote from TraderZones:

If you want to get a real job at the end of the rainbow, grades are not enough. You need to aggressively pursue some internships, even unpaid.
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That's where my school comes in :)
I was the only one in the business honours program from a private college who opted out of McGill (McGill is basically the MIT of Canada for undergraduate degree) and went to Concordia.

McGill does not offer a 'CO-OP' program like Concordia does.
Concordia offers a 3-year coop program that offers 3 PAID internships of 4-months in length during the entire program. Granted the jobs are not astounding, but they will be a couple solid ones. The people 1-2 years older than me will fortunately not be my competition as the program is structured in a way that 2nd year students work in the summer and 3rd year students work in the winter!!

Best of all I am against people my own age (19-21) and my own year (1st year). If I do not land a decent job this summer [given my opportunities--weak competition (1st year students), high gpa, high knowledge about finance, I'm truly a fuck up, and a disgrace.

What job am I looking for? I have no clue, I have 0 experience in corporations/banks--I do wish I did an unpaid intern during my summer in college though-that would of gave me an upper edge!! I'll update everyone this june to let everyone know if I got something or not.!
 
Quote from exaltedangel09:

That's where my school comes in :)
I was the only one in the business honours program from a private college who opted out of McGill (McGill is basically the MIT of Canada for undergraduate degree) and went to Concordia.

McGill does not offer a 'CO-OP' program like Concordia does.
Concordia offers a 3-year coop program that offers 3 PAID internships of 4-months in length during the entire program. Granted the jobs are not astounding, but they will be a couple solid ones. The people 1-2 years older than me will fortunately not be my competition as the program is structured in a way that 2nd year students work in the summer and 3rd year students work in the winter!!

Best of all I am against people my own age (19-21) and my own year (1st year). If I do not land a decent job this summer [given my opportunities--weak competition (1st year students), high gpa, high knowledge about finance, I'm truly a fuck up, and a disgrace.

What job am I looking for? I have no clue, I have 0 experience in corporations/banks--I do wish I did an unpaid intern during my summer in college though-that would of gave me an upper edge!! I'll update everyone this june to let everyone know if I got something or not.!
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sounds good. I know McGill. But something to keep in mind, is that the financial services industry has been gutted from the following forces:
1) A lot of positions were permanently eliminated worldwide by the financial crisis
2) A lot of positions have been eliminated by artificial intelligence/algorithmic/automated/system/electronic trading. I worked on floors where a lot of the former trading staff desks were emptied, and given over to non-trading staff (IT, etc.)
3) A lot of positions in North America/europe were eliminated by offshoring, especially to places like India. Many financial services companies now have sizable staffs in Banfgalore, Hyperabad, & other Indian centers. And some of the work has been outsourced to companies like Accenture, Wipro, etc. who are building centers in Chindia.
4) Trading overall is increasingly moving to places like Asia.

Two suggestions.
1) When in your last yar of graduation, on-campus interviews are critical - talk to everyone. And also, send resumes to companies that may NOT come to your campus. Start very early, and spend a lot of time making contacts. You might want to set up a LinkedIn.com profile - it is considered the serious one in the professional domain. Obviously, use the other networking/social sites also.

2) If we are still in bad economy when it comes time to look for jobs and you don't get one, a couple of options are to get a second BS degree in an employable area, or perhaps even get your Master's.
 
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