Obama's 100% Right on Healthcare Reform

[AAAintheBeltway]

Anyone who thinks we can "save" enough to pay for universal care or a separate government-run system is dreaming. Certain economies are possible, but medicare is probably the best example of the economies the government could achieve. Physicians hate to take medicare patients because of how little they get paid and the restrictions, but even with that, medicare is broke. You can trim a little around the edges, but that's about it. One area of savings would be to reform the medical malpractice system. No way that ever gets through ademocrat congress when trial lawyers are right up there with unions as their biggest financial supprters.

In the end there is only one way to rein in costs, and that is by rationing. Whether it is by long waiting lists for what are now routine procedures or more drastic measures like forbidding treatment of people beyond a certain age or with poor prospects, there will be rationing. Every "universal" system has it.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from bigdavediode:

That's what HMOs do right now.

Not really. They might argue over an experimental or unapproved treatment, but they are not going to deny you a bypass or hip replacement because you are too old.

There is also the issue of having unaccountable government workers making these decisions. Once you take away the threat of competition, you guarantee inefficiency at a minimum. You also introduce the prospect of favoritism in a system that will be rationing care.

 

[BartS]

This feels like beating a dead horse, but why could we not have the same system France has?

I lived there for 10 years, never had to wait for treatment, sure you get taxed more, but that's what accountants are for....And over the course of a lifetime, if you add up medicare, SS, out of pocket expenses plus insurance costs, I'm ready to bet that it ends up being more than the portion of the tax the french pay towards healthcare...

Hard to beat a $10.00 root canal....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_France

 

[drjekyllus]

Quote from bigdavediode:

That's what HMOs do right now.

The difference is, the HMO has an interest in keeping you alive so you can continue to be a customer. In the government plan, if you die, its just one more liability that gets wiped off the governments books.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Not really. They might argue over an experimental or unapproved treatment, but they are not going to deny you a bypass or hip replacement because you are too old.

There is also the issue of having unaccountable government workers making these decisions. Once you take away the threat of competition, you guarantee inefficiency at a minimum. You also introduce the prospect of favoritism in a system that will be rationing care.

Here's just one article of many:

Former HMO physician who denied a heart transplant

"Former Humana Medical Evaluator Dr. Linda Peeno was so disturbed by what she experienced working for the giant HMO -- including denying a young patient's heart transplant -- that she went into medical ethics and is now a vocal advocate for health care reform.

"As a physician working for Humana, I denied a young man a heart transplant that would have saved his life, and thus caused his death," testified Dr. Peeno. "No person or group has held me accountable for this, because, in fact, what I did was I saved a company a half a million dollars."

"Humana's only concern was costs," says Dr. Peeno. "The young man fit all the criteria, a donor had been found, his doctor was ready to do the operation. Meanwhile, behind the scenes Humana employees scrambled to find a loophole in the patient's contract. When they did, I was the one who had to tell the surgeon that the operation would not be covered."

"The doctor asked me if I knew that the patient would likely die of his condition without the surgery, and I said I knew." says Dr. Peeno. "When I hung up the phone my colleagues at Humana were thrilled, even joyful. I was sickened."

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2002/may/damaged_care_premi.php

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Cesko:

...all of the sudden. Lying scumbag...

"All of a sudden?" What rock did you crawl out from under? It was one of his principal platforms during the election. He's now endeavoring to deliver on that promise. Integrity is actually a good thing.

 

[bigdavediode]

Quote from drjekyllus:

The difference is, the HMO has an interest in keeping you alive so you can continue to be a customer. In the government plan, if you die, its just one more liability that gets wiped off the governments books.

Ummm... actually that's entirely backwards. HMO's have zero interest in keeping a person alive and they pursue any and all legal means to deny care.

In fact, New York had to pass a law to prevent HMO's from abusing their patients and even then the HMO's didn't comply.

 

[ByLoSellHi]

Those who know the score here have heard of capitation.

What is it, those of you have not heard of it, ask?

In simple terms, capitation is an HMO, POS, PPO or other medical insurance company starting a big pool of money at the beginning of the year, and paying doctors NOT to provide treatment, prescribe medications, or order diagnostic tests, as it eats into the pool of money.

The bigger the pool of money at the end of the year, the bigger the doctors' bonuses when it's split up.

Even when the doctor insists on a course of treatment that isn't garden fare medical treatment, capitation be damned, some MBA typically is the one the doctor has to seek approval from, and the MBA can overrule the treating physician. The best the patient can do is file an appeal with the doctor.

At the same time, Pharma companies are paying doctors to attend a golf or boating junket in Orlando or the Bahamas, to 'discuss peer reviews of medications and their efficacy,' handing out lots of swag and paying the doctors' hotel room and meal tickets.

Push and pull. Yin and yang.

Capitation - every medical insurance company uses it. Check it out.

 

[Cesko]

"If we do not fix our healthcare system, America may go the way of GM; paying more, getting less, and going broke,

Double the debt, triple the debt etc. And now, all of the sudden, Obama worries about U.S. going broke.
Besides, regarding health care reform, they don't really know how to pay for it.

Whatever serves the purpose at the moment. Remember Democrats used to worry about deficits.

 

[AAAintheBeltway]

Quote from bigdavediode:

Here's just one article of many:

Former HMO physician who denied a heart transplant

"Former Humana Medical Evaluator Dr. Linda Peeno was so disturbed by what she experienced working for the giant HMO -- including denying a young patient's heart transplant -- that she went into medical ethics and is now a vocal advocate for health care reform.

"As a physician working for Humana, I denied a young man a heart transplant that would have saved his life, and thus caused his death," testified Dr. Peeno. "No person or group has held me accountable for this, because, in fact, what I did was I saved a company a half a million dollars."

"Humana's only concern was costs," says Dr. Peeno. "The young man fit all the criteria, a donor had been found, his doctor was ready to do the operation. Meanwhile, behind the scenes Humana employees scrambled to find a loophole in the patient's contract. When they did, I was the one who had to tell the surgeon that the operation would not be covered."

"The doctor asked me if I knew that the patient would likely die of his condition without the surgery, and I said I knew." says Dr. Peeno. "When I hung up the phone my colleagues at Humana were thrilled, even joyful. I was sickened."

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2002/may/damaged_care_premi.php

Sorry but anecdotes are not evidence. I expect obama to drag out scores of tear-jerker stories. Probably some of them will even be true. Just like with the mortgage "crisis," it will be demanded that we dispense with common sense and good judgment because someone, somwhere will suffer otherwise.

I'm not defending HMOs, but I would think the rational approach would be to address abuses rather than use a few tales to justify a government takeover of yet another massive industry. You may enjoy going to the motor vehicles department, dealing with the IRS and trying to deal with the Post Office. Most of us don't and wouldn't want that to become the way we get health care.