ObamaCare policies will cost more

[oldtime]

Quote from piezoe:

We either correct the present situation or we move further down the path toward becoming a second rate nation.

I'm not so sure what the government calls health care is what the doctors call health care, especially if you freed them from malpractice suits.

I'll say it again, I don't like the government telling me what health care is

to this day they still don't know if the irradication of some diseases were due to vaccines or just higher sanitary living conditions

It's a moot point. No matter what the government decrees, nothing is going to happen unless the doctors agree.

 

[hilojack]

Quote from piezoe:

Just copy any of the other countries who have already figured out how to make health care both accessible and deliver better results than the U.S. can. I don't care how it is done. But it is obvious that whatever the U.S. is doing in that regard is wrong.

The problem is that all of the countries that "have it figured out" are homogeneous societies where the majority come from similar backgrounds, customs habits etc.

Which bring us to the good old US. The grand experiment. A country which can take the dregs of every other third rate country and give them the greatest chance of winning the world economic lottery. At least that's how it used to be.

The moment you step off the plane (or boat more likely) you've likely already tripled your former net worth because you have access to the greatest healthcare in the world.

Does anyone really believe there is a healthcare access problem in the US? Just show up at any emergency room in the middle of the night when the freeloaders hiding in the shadows come out for their free healthcare.

So what is obamacare? Like Roberts said, it's a tax. It has nothing to do with healthcare, it has to do with getting the productive to pay for the unproductive.

 

[nutmeg]

Quote from hilojack:

So what is obamacare? Like Roberts said, it's a tax. It has nothing to do with healthcare, it has to do with getting the productive to pay for the unproductive.

I agree. Probably after we total all the exceptions, exemptions and opt outs we'll be back to the same old way of health care as usual except it'll cost more via taxes.

 

[oldtime]

well see, that's what I don't understand, in USA, everybody gets healthcare whether they can afford it or not

the rich guy buys insurance so they don't come and take his house

the poor guy doesn't own a house and just gets bills from the collection agency until they give up

and we all pay for it, in costs to visit the doctor or the price of our premiums

so that is the free market health care system

 

[piezoe]

Quote from hilojack: my comments added

The problem is that all of the countries that "have it figured out" are homogeneous societies where the majority come from similar backgrounds, customs habits etc.
This has nothing to do with the issue as proven by, for example, Brazil, which has a fine public health care system, much better than the U.S., but has a population at least as inhomogeneous as the U.S. Why would population homogeneity have anything to do with health care in the U.S. You are obviously confusing income homogeneity with ethic and racial homogeneity. In the U.S., income inhomogeneity makes health care inaccessible to a large fraction of the population, whereas it is not a significant problem in, for example, Brazil!

Which bring us to the good old US. The grand experiment. A country which can take the dregs of every other third rate country and give them the greatest chance of winning the world economic lottery. At least that's how it used to be. That may be true, but please recognize that the odds are extremely small compared to what you are imagining. And what on Earth does this have to do with the U.S.A.'s inability to provide health care to its citizens? Are you suggesting that the extremely small odds of a poor immigrant striking it rich in the U.S. is a reasonable tradeoff for not having access to routine healthcare in you are otherwise one of the vast majority that don't strike it rich?

The moment you step off the plane (or boat more likely) you've likely already tripled your former net worth because you have access to the greatest healthcare in the world. This is demonstrably untrue. The U.S. has the worst healthcare outcome among 14 industrialized nations by any standard measure you wish to apply. The first step in solving a problem is to recognize that there is a problem!

Does anyone really believe there is a healthcare access problem in the US? Just show up at any emergency room in the middle of the night when the freeloaders hiding in the shadows come out for their free healthcare. Does any educated person in the U.S. really believe that there is not a problem of access to healthcare in the U.S.? I am not talking about emergency rooms here, I'm talking about everyday access to routine health care!!!!! And I'm not talking about people on medicaid. Do you have any idea of just how difficult it is for any unmarried, minimum wage or unemployed person in the U.S. to qualify for medicaid?!!!

 

[piezoe]

Quote from oldtime:

... in USA, everybody gets healthcare whether they can afford it or not

Oldtime, this is simply untrue. Everyone, regardless of ability to pay, can access at least some level of triaged care via an emergency room at great public expense, assuming they can get to one. But this has nothing to do with access to routine medical care, which millions don't have access to! I'm talking about access to routine health care, not emergency stopgap care. And by the way, this emergency care isn't free to the indigent patient. Hospitals have large collection departments that will hound these folks for years, and if they ever do get a good paying job, the hospital will take much of what they would otherwise make assuring that the stay impoverished for many months, if not years.

 

[brusty4]

Don't forget, the poorest already had access to free healthcare. If they were at or below the poverty level, they were eligible for Medicaid.

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from brusty4:

Don't forget, the poorest already had access to free healthcare. If they were at or below the poverty level, they were eligible for Medicaid.

ObamaCare is not primarily about health care... that's the ruse... the misdirect.

 

[piezoe]

Quote from brusty4:

Don't forget, the poorest already had access to free healthcare. If they were at or below the poverty level, they were eligible for Medicaid.

This is categorically untrue and a common misconception. In most states there is far more to qualifying for medicaid than just having an income below a certain level. That is only one of the criteria! Also the rules are anything but uniform among the various States! It's a fucking nightmare!

 

[oldtime]

Quote from piezoe:

This is categorically untrue and a common misconception. In most states there is far more to qualifying for medicaid than just having an income below a certain level. That is only one of the criteria! Also the rules are anything but uniform among the various States! It's a fucking nightmare!

well piezoe, as you know, I am a hardcore socialist when it comes to the poor, far to the left from you. And a hardcore hands off right wing anti fascist, anti crony, free market capitalist when it comes to the rich. And I define anybody in the lower 50% of total net worth poor, and anybody in the upper 50% total net worth rich.

but all that aside, since the topic is health care, and you know a lot more about it than me

please tell me, what is wrong with medicare for all, from cradle to grave?

I only ask because to me it is a no brainer, everybody should have food and now I guess health care (although I can't remember the last time I ever went to a doctor) but if you say they need it I'll just be quiet and go along, just to make sure the poor are taken care of.

Like I said, I would rather see the rich fighting over the crumbs than the fat. We enjoy it and there are always plenty of crumbs to fight over.