obamacare levels the playing field.

[kmgilroy89]

I've attacked the unjustified cost that is Obamacare with nothing, but facts. I'm still waiting for the progressive response.

In summary:

- 30 million people will still be uninsured under Obamacare according to the CBO
- We spend more in public health care already than countries such as Australia while they cover everybody and we don't
- In terms of total spending we spend way more than any other country on the planet
- Obamacare doesn't pay for itself, it raises taxes on investments for high income earners, and it will not reduce the deficit via spending cuts
- People will cut employees hours to avoid funding Obamacare, leaving people underemployed

To me it is completely unjustified to tax people more and add another government healthcare program when the government already spends more in public healthcare per capita than almost all other countries and we can't even cover half as many people as they do. We should be reforming the bureaucratic healthcare spending we have now, not adding more spending.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from kmgilroy89:

I've attacked the unjustified cost that is Obamacare with nothing, but facts. I'm still waiting for the progressive response....

Facts from the "progressives"? You may be waiting awhile.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from kmgilroy89:

I've attacked the unjustified cost that is Obamacare with nothing, but facts. I'm still waiting for the progressive response.

In summary:

- 30 million people will still be uninsured under Obamacare according to the CBO
- We spend more in public health care already than countries such as Australia while they cover everybody and we don't
- In terms of total spending we spend way more than any other country on the planet
- Obamacare doesn't pay for itself, it raises taxes on investments for high income earners, and it will not reduce the deficit
- People will cut employees hours to avoid funding Obamacare, leaving people underemployed

To me it is completely unjustified to tax people more and add another government healthcare program when the government already spends more in public healthcare per capita than almost all other countries and we can't even cover half as many people as they do. We should be reforming the bureaucratic healthcare spending we have now, not adding more spending.

we cant. republicans will not allow it. obamacare is the best that was able to squeek through the legislative process.
pretty much everyone knows that single payer is the best answer but it is not a realistic expectation under the current political realities.

"Don't Let the Perfect Be the Enemy of the Good"

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Free Thinker:

we cant. republicans will not allow it. obamacare is the best that was able to squeek through the legislative process.

Democrats owned the house senate and WH when it was passed.
You guys own this one.

 

[kmgilroy89]

Quote from Free Thinker:

we cant. republicans will not allow it. obamacare is the best that was able to squeek through the legislative process.
pretty much everyone knows that single payer is the best answer but it is not a realistic expectation under the current political realities.

So the best that can squeak through the legislator cannot cut or at least be neutral with the 7.9% of GDP (and rising) in public healthcare spending?

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from kmgilroy89:

So the best that can squeak through the legislator cannot cut or at least be revenue neutral with the 7.9% of GDP (and rising) in public healthcare spending?

not at this time. i think it will lead there. the states are supposed to set up exchanges under obama care. most of them are refusing to do so and handing off the obligation to the feds. that will make it much easier to implement single payer when the time is right.

 

[Ricter]

On soaring healthcare costs:

"There have been a trickling of academic papers and journal articles tracking the trend, but the news hasn’t really yet made it fully into the political discussion.

"A January 2012 article in the journal Health Affairs reported that “U.S. health spending grew more slowly in 2009 and 2010 — at rates of 3.8 percent and 3.9 percent, respectively — than in any other years during the fifty-one-year history of the National Health Expenditure Accounts.” That article, by economists and statisticians who work for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, says, rather than controlling costs, ObamaCare actually increased health spending by one or two tenths of a percentage point in 2010. Overall, though, the law’s effect in 2010 was less important than were things like “the loss of patent protection for certain brand-name drugs” and “a continuing increase in the use of generic medications,” i.e., those $4 generics at Walmart.

“Slower Growth In Medicare Spending — Is This the New Normal?” was the headline on one article published in March 2012 in the New England Journal of Medicine. That discussed a series of factors. The economic downturn meant some hospitals delayed or canceled construction projects because of “tight credit markets and shrinking endowments.” Demographically, the Baby Boomers just becoming eligible for Medicare are “young elderly” who tend to be healthier and require less costly care. This article also mentions two Bush-era laws: “The Deficit Reduction Act of 2005 reduced payment rates for imaging, home health services, and durable medical equipment, and the Medicare Improvements for Patients and Providers Act of 2008 made substantial cuts to Medicare Advantage plans.”

"Another New England Journal of Medicine article, from August 2, 2012, reported what it called a “marked slowdown in spending growth.” That article says that “Between 2000 and 2005, Medicare spending per enrollee grew about 7.2% annually, as compared with 9.1% growth among private payers. Between 2006 and 2010, however, growth in Medicare spending per enrollee slowed to 4.2% annually, as compared with 4.5% among private payers.” The article says growth of Medicaid spending per enrollee “was relatively slow (less than 3% per year) throughout the past decade.” Among the causes, the authors speculate, were “lower growth rates for prescription-drug spending” in part because of “the increased substitution of generics for brand-name drugs.”

"According to the National Health Expenditure Accounts maintained by the Department of Health and Human Services, health care spending was about 14 percent of GDP from 1997 to 2001, then grew to about 16 percent from 2003 to 2007. In 2009 and 2010 it was at 17.9 percent. After just about doubling to $2.4 trillion from $1.2 trillion in the decade between 1998 and 2008, health care spending was about $2.5 trillion in 2009 and about $2.6 trillion in 2010."

 

[Mav88]

Quote from Free Thinker:

by respect i ment more than a running joke. i disagree with someone like jem on every subject possible but i respect his convictions. you. just a running joke.

no you don't respect jem's convictions, you make very deregatory remarks about christians all the time

if this place was about respect then I certainly would not engage you on anything, you strike me as a loser with nothing better to do than provoke christians with your endless threads about some insignificant question regarding the logic of christianity. It's exactly what kids do in a high school dbate setting. If anyone around here needs to grow up it is you, but that is beside the point, this is a forum where people discuss ideas regardless of the source in spite of the healthy dose of ad hominems.

your post style and your lack of original insights are the jokes

 

[mrbill]

Quote from kmgilroy89:

So the best that can squeak through the legislator cannot cut or at least be neutral with the 7.9% of GDP (and rising) in public healthcare spending?

OK, of course single payer healthcare would have been much superior to what we have now. But, IMO, we now have a way to take those who rely on Emergency rooms and other quick care, to be involved, and PAY something for their own services. Call it a tax, call it a penalty or fine, just make them pay. I'm damn tired of having to pay for health care, and wish we could join the rest of the civilized world with Universal health care, but will settle for this until the GOP will go along with it.

 

[kmgilroy89]

Quote from mrbill:

OK, of course single payer healthcare would have been much superior to what we have now. But, IMO, we now have a way to take those who rely on Emergency rooms and other quick care, to be involved, and PAY something for their own services. Call it a tax, call it a penalty or fine, just make them pay. I'm damn tired of having to pay for health care, and wish we could join the rest of the civilized world with Universal health care, but will settle for this until the GOP will go along with it.

You're tired of paying for healthcare? Well someone has to pay one way or another. I'm not against a universal healthcare system so long as we keep public healthcare spending under the 7.9% of GDP it is now. The government shouldn't have to spend more than it already is, in insuring our population. In other words, serious reform would need to be done to make Medicare and Medicaid more cost effective.