Obama touts this as success

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:
Good idea. From wikipedia:

"The Volt operates as a pure battery electric vehicle until its plug-in battery capacity drops to a predetermined threshold from full charge. From there its internal combustion engine powers an electric generator to extend the vehicle's range if needed.Once the engine is running in this extended range mode, it may at times be linked mechanically (via a clutch) to assist the traction motor in propelling the car in order to improve energy efficiency. The Volt's regenerative braking also contributes to the on-board electricity generation. ..."

Also:

"The Society of Automotive Engineers' (SAE) definition of a hybrid vehicle states that the vehicle shall have "two or more energy storage systems both of which must provide propulsion power, either together or independently."[11] General Motors has avoided the use of the term "hybrid" when describing its Voltec designs, even after the carmaker revealed that in some cases the combustion engine provided some assist at high speeds or to improve performance.[12] Instead General Motors describes the Volt as an electric vehicle equipped with a "range extending" gasoline powered internal combustion engine (ICE) as a genset and therefore dubbed the Volt an "Extended Range Electric Vehicle" or E-REV.[13][14] In a January 2011 interview, the Chevy Volt's Global Chief Engineer, Pamela Fletcher, referred to the Volt as "an electric car with extended range."[15]


According to the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) definitions, the Volt is a plug-in hybrid vehicle, due to the combination of an internal combustion engine and two electric motors, along with a battery that can accept off-board energy.[16] The Volt operates as a purely electric vehicle for the first 25 to 50 miles (40 to 80 km) in charge-depleting mode. When the battery capacity drops below a pre-established threshold from full charge, the vehicles enters charge-sustaining mode, and the Volt's control system will select the most optimally efficient drive mode to improve performance and boost high-speed efficiency."

So this thing is pretty complicated. It's mechanically complex, and apparently it's complicated to even describe it accurately.

I will concede it's an elegant engineering solution, as I assume it allows them to get by with a much smaller gas engine than a pure hybrid would require. Using the gas engine to generate electricity allows it to operate at its most efficient RPM range. Using it purely as an adjunct to the electric motors means it doesn't have to be very powerful. How it works out in practice, and how it will work out after a lot of hard miles of city driving is anybody's guess.

The good point is that you can do a short commute wihout having to use the gas engine at all. The downside is you probably don't want to try to cross the Rocky Mountains in the winter with it. Cold weather will sap the battery, and it's not clear to me how much power it has on gas mode alone.
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As to your last paragraph, that is why it has a mountain mode. You put it on 20 minutes before you go into mountains. That will activate the gas generator to start recharging the battery. Then you will have plenty of battery power to sustain you through the long periods of acceleration.

Pam Fletcher is going to be on a live webcast tomorrow at my dealership (and presumably others around the country)for National Volt plug in day. I'll see what else she has to say and report back.
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:

As to your last paragraph, that is why it has a mountain mode. You put it on 20 minutes before you go into mountains. That will activate the gas generator to start recharging the battery. Then you will have plenty of battery power to sustain you through the long periods of acceleration.

Pam Fletcher is going to be on a live webcast tomorrow at my dealership (and presumably others around the country)for National Volt plug in day. I'll see what else she has to say and report back.
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I've been googling, and it seems that most Americans drive less than 35 miles per day anyway. Do that commute with your electric car, keep a gas car for the rocky mountains, probably save a fortune, and most families have 2 cars anyway. Makes some sense. If you only have one car though, well, it probably has to be gas.
 
Quote from mrbill:

I've been googling, and it seems that most Americans drive less than 35 miles per day anyway. Do that commute with your electric car, keep a gas car for the rocky mountains, probably save a fortune, and most families have 2 cars anyway. Makes some sense. If you only have one car though, well, it probably has to be gas.
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I kinda doubt it. What's the efficiency of charging a battery?

The energy has to come from somewhere and I was under the impression where these cars are supposed to be a hit, the grid was already strained.
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:


A car that goes on complete battery for 38 miles and then switches to gas at 37 MPG, is a pretty good start.
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But the Fox documentary on the Volt showed it repeatedly running out of battery power after 25 miles. Is there another source that shows it going 37 or 38 miles? How about a link?

If they had just stuck with the original design I may have even bought one. I looked at the car several times at car shows and was telling people at work for years that I was waiting for it to come out. But when the car became available it was quickly evident that GM had ditched the advanced design and just pulled hybrid parts off the shelf which they cobbled together into a mediocre vehicle. I was disappointed and these days have a 2012 Focus for commuting (but still drive my Mustang once or twice per week). My Focus can get an honest 41 mpg on the highway if I keep the speed down below 70 mph.

I am interested in a Prius and probably the next economy car I get will be a Toyota. The amount of fuel savings from commuting to work in something economical almost pays for the car. The Prius is supposed to get 51 mpg on the highway and it is highly rated for reliability.
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:

They're just a little more open minded, unlike you.
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You confuse open-mindedness with technical gullibility. I'm an engineer and just can't bring myself to buy an inferior vehicle like the Volt. I'm sure you can find a few people who are not technically astute enough to discern the major flaws in the Volts design and implementation. After all, the average IQ in the USA is about 100.

Many of us will likely never buy a GM product again in our lifetimes because of the misrepresentation of the Volt and the shady treatment of GM bondholders during the taxpayer funded GM bailout.
 
Quote from pspr:

This should be obvious to all. We just don't have the battery know-how. Personally, I think we are further than 10 years away from a significantly better battery. For electric autos to be widely accepted we really need a battery that holds 5 or 10 times the energy in the same amount of space.

But, even then, if efficiencies aren't gained in the production and transfer of energies from the source to the end use, all we are doing is switching from oil to nat gas and coal - maybe nuclear. So, I don't see the solution from electric cars even if batteries were 10 times better considering our current technology with electric power generation.

That just leads me to the next problem. It seems we are decades away from solar cell or other solar power efficiencies that are needed to make solar feasable. It's the same problem as with the battery. We are not close, yet, to the technology we need to make the switch.

I think we are at least 40 years away from having the technology that will work at both ends. It all depends upon breakthroughs that come, it seems, at a slow pace.
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Yes, the battery issue is about energy density. There are batteries that exist that would work but they are too expensive to put into a passenger vehicle and are usually found in communication satellites and other high-dollar applications.

Same with solar cells. You can buy a solar cell right now that converts fully 28% of available solar energy (per unit area) into electrical energy but those cells are prohibitively expensive and are generally only found in space applications.
 
Quote from 377OHMS:

Yes, the battery issue is about energy density. There are batteries that exist that would work but they are too expensive to put into a passenger vehicle and are usually found in communication satellites and other high-dollar applications.

Same with solar cells. You can buy a solar cell right now that converts fully 28% of available solar energy (per unit area) into electrical energy but those cells are prohibitively expensive and are generally only found in space applications.
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I guess I really didn't consider that we might have the technology in military or space applications but I imagine there are rare or difficult to manufacture elements needed and just scaling up quantities wouldn't necessarily solve the cost issue. Commercial solar panels today are, I think, about half that efficient.

This sounds incredibly promising but you read these stories then they fade away.

http://www.ecogeek.org/solar-power/1329
 
Now we know why volt sales in August got a bump. GM was giving them away!

General Motors rolled out the Chevrolet Volt two years ago with lofty sales goals and the promise of a new technology that someday would help end America's dependence on oil.

So it seemed like a good thing in August when sales of the $40,000 car set a monthly record of 2,800. But a closer look shows that things aren't what they seem for the cutting-edge car.

Sales rose mostly because of discounts of almost $10,000, or 25 percent of the Volt's sticker price, according to figures from TrueCar.com, an auto pricing website. Other pricing services gave similar numbers, and dealers confirmed that steeply discounted Volts are selling better than a few months ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012...iscounts-to-boost-volt-sales/?intcmp=features
 
Quote from pspr:

Now we know why volt sales in August got a bump. GM was giving them away!

General Motors rolled out the Chevrolet Volt two years ago with lofty sales goals and the promise of a new technology that someday would help end America's dependence on oil.

So it seemed like a good thing in August when sales of the $40,000 car set a monthly record of 2,800. But a closer look shows that things aren't what they seem for the cutting-edge car.

Sales rose mostly because of discounts of almost $10,000, or 25 percent of the Volt's sticker price, according to figures from TrueCar.com, an auto pricing website. Other pricing services gave similar numbers, and dealers confirmed that steeply discounted Volts are selling better than a few months ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012...iscounts-to-boost-volt-sales/?intcmp=features
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"GM is losing thousands of dollars on every Volt, raising the question of how long it can keep eating the steep losses."

As long as there are taxpayers to make up the GM losses they'll continue to deeply discount these massively flawed vehicles.
 
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