Obama to announce increase in taxes for businesses and wealthy

Quote from gnome:

True. And the more Socialistic America becomes (we have been socialistic to a degree for decades), the worse off America will be... especially future generations.

The Gummint should let capitalism be capitalism... with perhaps one exception. If the banks are "too important to fail", then they should (1) be prevented from doing stupid shit, and (2) be allowed to do only certain kinds of conservative, properly underwritten and collateralized loans... supervised by regulators.
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As head of our central bank, Alan Greenspan was given the responsibility to provide financial stability. Unfortunately for us, Alan embraced an excessive ideological belief that there are no market failures, and no issues of distortions on incentives.

He believed that the markets were "self-regulating" and that institutions would preserve shareholder equity.

Oh Alan, you couldn't have been any more NAIVE or WRONG.

So much for laissez-faire Capitalism.
 
Quote from BSAM:

(Rolls eyes.) Okay, Patchie. Support your good government. You are obviously more intelligent than the folks who made the FairTax plan. Good luck.
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BSAM, what's wrong, you show me the link but can't answer a few simple questions? Does that mean YOU DO NOT KNOW THE ANSWERS yet support the plan anyway.

Tell me how this plan maintains foreign purchases in the US and how this plan avoids having purchases diverted overseas. I can tell you that I live in a state with sales tax and can drive 20 minutes north and not pay tax on the same item. I likewise purchase on-line when no taxes are paid so as to not pay them. What makes you think similar traits will not be done en-masse when the entire nations tax base is placed on purchased goods.

YOU brought up the plan, defend it.
 
BSAM I checked out the site, even showed you areas where your Congressional supporters list was in error. But your site dows not address such flaws as purchases made overseas. it likewise does not fully address what impact this tax will have on foreign tourists spending in the US.

If there is a 25% tax on everything we buy, how will these prices compete with other nations? Will it drive down foreign purchases? Similarly, what is to stop large purchases from being made overseas? A $20,000 diamond purchased in the US with a 25% tax will be bought overseas for $20,000. For those with the wealth to make such travels do you not see this as a loophole?

patchie, why don't you read the book? It's not a very long read. I was skeptical going in, but I think it might be a really good option compared to this albatross of a tax system we have now. I think any questions you might be worried about as far as fairness would be answered. Seems to me that it will never happen because it takes away power from our dear old government and gives it back where it belongs and that is with us.

By the way, if you decide not to read it, any comments you make regarding the fair tax really will simply be....just comments. If you do read it and can make legitimate arguments why it won't work, I would be interested to hear them.
 
testa, If you read the book, why not enlighten us all on the response to my question. I am sure that many would like to understand the plan with regards to such questions without having to sponsor the makers by purchasing their book.

If you want to sell a plan that the people buy into - explain it fully and without conditions.
 
patchie, are you assuming that the 22% tax is an additional tax? If so you misunderstand. All current taxes will be replaced by this tax which is about the same as the current inbedded taxes we now have. So the price of everything will stay about the same. So tourists will not be pysing any more than they currently are and the evil rich won't have any more reason to purchase overseas than they currently do.
 
Quote from testaclese:

patchie, are you assuming that the 22% tax is an additional tax? If so you misunderstand. All current taxes will be replaced by this tax which is about the same as the current inbedded taxes we now have. So the price of everything will stay about the same. So tourists will not be pysing any more than they currently are and the evil rich won't have any more reason to purchase overseas than they currently do.
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testaclese. Your theory is that the cost of goods and services will remain the same because the taxes baked into those goods and services as corporate taxes and payroll taxes are equal to teh 22% tax? How then does the US make it's money if they are already receiving that portion in business taxes? If the cost of the goods remains unchanged and yet none of us pay any taxes what pays for the reduction in our taxes?

If we all take home more pay and yet the goods and services remain unchanged the budgets don't balance. How is Social Security funded then? How are government programs now funded by taxes to be funded if the present tax system of the businesses generate all the taxes we need?

Something has to change if you are to offset one with another and the only thing that CAN CHANGE is the cost of goods sold. The income the US receives in income and social security and medicare taxes today has to be distributed somehow into a sales tax revenue stream.

As for book revenues, why should I finance a tax movement that is not made available for free to answer my concerns? Seems stupid for me to go out and spend money to learn about a new tax plan, and where my money will be used to lobby this plan, only to find that I disagree with the plan itself. Shouldn't you invest in things you believe in and not things you disagree with? Would you campaign for or donate to the politician you are against?
 
Quote from patchie:

BSAM I checked out the site, even showed you areas where your Congressional supporters list was in error. But your site dows not address such flaws as purchases made overseas. it likewise does not fully address what impact this tax will have on foreign tourists spending in the US.

If there is a 25% tax on everything we buy, how will these prices compete with other nations? Will it drive down foreign purchases? Similarly, what is to stop large purchases from being made overseas? A $20,000 diamond purchased in the US with a 25% tax will be bought overseas for $20,000. For those with the wealth to make such travels do you not see this as a loophole?
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Every dollar spent at a retail level by foreign visitors or illegal immigrants, every dollar they spend on a McDonalds burger and Coke will be taxed at 23%, thus helping us with federal tax and SS tax. :)

Since embedded taxes before the retail level will be removed, the retail level price should be similar to what it is before the FairTax is implemented.
 
Quote from gnome:

The Gummint should let capitalism be capitalism... with perhaps one exception. If the banks are "too important to fail", then they should (1) be prevented from doing stupid shit, and (2) be allowed to do only certain kinds of conservative, properly underwritten and collateralized loans... supervised by regulators.
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Maybe if they were CERTAIN that they would fail, smart people wouldn't make assinine decisions like they did. In other words, if they thought there was no safety net they might of acted differently.
 
patchie, it's been while since I read the book and I gave it to a friend, so I hope I have this right. As I understand it, all of our current taxes are equal to the amount of about 22%. If you do away with those taxes the price of a $1 item will go down to about 88 cents. If you add in the fair tax, that item just went back up to $1. So the same amount of revenue is being generated to the government. But we don't have to deal will the enormous amount of accounting just to keep ourselves legal with the IRS. All the revenue will be generated by the fair tax. I know that sounds simplistic, given the mess we have now, but sometimes simple really is the best way.
The fair tax will only be applied to new items the first time it is purchased. Build a new house for $200,000 and the tax is figured into the cost of the house. Buy a used house and there is no tax. The true cost of the new house is around $176,000 and the tax which goes to government is about $24,000.
I think I am right on this. The really important thing on this tax plan to me is that I get to decide how much tax I pay. If I don't want to pay a big tax on something , I can buy used, One has to remember that all basic purchases such as food, utilities, rent, etc. will have that tax returned in the form of a prebate, thereby basically reducing the tax burden on the poor. That is based on the number of dependents in the household I believe.
I guess the thing to remember is that the fair tax will still bring in as much as the present tax system without all the loopholes of the present system. And we do away with the IRS. No more keeping receipts and how much money you make is your business and not the government's. Hope I answered you questions. If I didn't, let me know and I'll try again. Better for you to read the book. It's really not that long of a read.
 
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