Obama On Economy: I Don't Control The Weather

[iceman1]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

I would be happy to give my thoughts on this.

First, let me state that I do not believe the original mess was Obama's fault. But the man ran his campaign on promises to change "business as usual" and end the bailouts, and all he did was put more of the usual in charge and continue the same crony capitalism that Bush had in play. He put the same Fed Chairman who's monetary policy and bailouts had creature the "too big to fail" phrase in the first place, then he put in Timmah, Wall Street's best buddy and former NY fed guy. Larry Summers? Don't get me started.

As for jobs, many companies (like mine) know that we are no where near out of this mess, and thus we do not expect good times ahead. So we're bracing for the next impact, not hiring. If Obama had been true to his word, and prosecuted all those guilty of fraud and theft in the market, he might have convinced people he was truly on the side of capitalism. Instead, he hid behind the aforementioned people and let them drive his policy (which was more of the same). So we continue hobbling along our broken down economy until someone addresses the root problems.

For starters, flatten the corporate tax rate (lower) and eliminate loop holes. Then offer a credit back for every American on US Soil that is employed at the company.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from iceman1:

Tsing

let me ask you a question.

What would you do if you had problems getting or could not get health care? What are your views on health care. How would they be different if you were not underwritten because of some B.S. exclusion(s) by the health care industry.

Just curious

Ooof...I don't know if I have the time to type out a lucid response to that. It's a lot of thought.

I think that, on paper, the idea of universal healthcare is fantastic. What human being could not like the concept of every person's health being taken care of? That's utopia, if ever there was such a thing.

The problem with all social policies like this one is the cost of the program. As a country, we simply cannot afford all the entitlements. Get rid of Social Security - then talk about universal healthcare. Do it right. Put tort reform in there. If you're going to want the private sector in there, then you can't do things like forcing them to cover pre-existing conditions and then expecting them to keep premiums low. It's a business, and if they have to take a loss, they go out of business.

Look what happened with flood insurance. The government got involved to offer a lower cost to flood insurance (because premiums in the industry were really high) and now the government is the only one in the flood insurance business.

It would have probably been better to give everyone who qualified a tax credit if they bought health insurance rather than to cover them.

 

[denner]

Quote from denner:

Tsing Tao just answered this question. It's not "because of him", it's largely due to ZIRP and Bernanke's desire to get anyone and everyone into "risk assets". I've talked about my contempt for ZIRP is numerous other threads as it's contributed greatly to further instability in the banking sector and shadow banking system.

And FWIW, if you are unable to see that this is a completely NON-PARTISAN problem, then you are the one with the problems here. After all, what good does a stock market rally do when our federal deficits have grown exponentially in the process, when the future of our currency is at stake and when we need the Federal Reserve to continue to monetize the debt and institute "quant easing" for years to come just to "keep the lights on"?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. "How the stock market does" is a measurement designed for suckers. If one isn't concerned with the actual purchasing power of the currency that said stock market is denominated with, then it's fool's gold.


Now, back to you. Instead of your "hit and run" approach to this debate, why don't you contribute something to the defense of Obama and his ties to Cook County corruption, his ties to the failures of Solyndra and his role in Operation Fast and Furious. Let's see how much "IQ" you have in your right hand.

Still waiting, Iceman. Let's hear your counter argument.

 

[Tsing Tao]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

While your statistic is accurate, it is so only in the spirit that statistics can lie, because you are using flawed statistics.

Fact: Unemployment data published is not accurate because it uses a flawed model that is designed to under report unemployment. Hence, using that as a measure of success by the Obama administration (or ANY administration) is pure horseshit. Instead, use the labor utilization chart I provided which shows the number of people in the workforce (which you continue to ignore) as it is statistically sound, and consistent throughout time (never been altered in methodology).



Again, there's no way that can be technically disputed. The market is indeed higher today than it was when Obama was elected. The misleading part comes in when you try to say that was Obama's doing - it was (is) not. You can no more thank the President for a stock market surge based on flooding the system with liquidity than you can thank someone betting on a horse to win when the jokey injects pure adrenaline into the horse right before the race. Additionally, the after effects of this poor management are equally neither the President's fault (when the economy crashes from it) or the bystander's fault (when the horse crashes after the race).

Is it Obama's fault the S+P is currently down 25 points today?



All of our citizens having $1,000,000 in their pocket is also a good thing. But that doesn't mean it should be the government who gives it to them, as the costs in doing so outweigh the benefits of having it happen.

Your "facts" are nothing more than statistical lies, trumped up garbage and misleading statements.

Fact.

What's the matter, AK? No "facts" to counter any of the information above?

 

[iceman1]

Quote from denner:

Still waiting, Iceman. Let's hear your counter argument.

no, you're right bro; you know your current events, and are certainly entitled to your opinions. I have a different view of the matters you cited vis-a-vis Obama.

Have a good New Year.

btw: I asked you before what is your educational background and where you went to school; you did not reply.

 

[Lucrum]

Can you explain what is your objection to "Fast & Furious" or "Solyndra"

Quote from iceman1:

You didn't say what your objection is? Let me know.

F & F: I object to tax payer funded covert operations to supply arms to drug cartels with the intent of making it look like we need more gun control imposed on the very tax payers paying for this travesty. Then having a US officer killed with one of those arms. Then having the AG lie before congress about the whole thing then claim he wasn't really lying due to his state of mind, while he was lying.
Reminds me of when Clinton told his sheeple that oral sex isn't - sex.

Solyndra: I object to 1/2 BILLION tax payer dollars being given to a company already all but bankrupt at a time when the US is all but bankrupt itself. It shows this administrations complete lack of judgment or any semblance of even basic common sense.

What is "WTF?" have to do with the issues!?

"What the fuck" as in WTF would cause anyone with the IQ of a Lima to ask when the answers are so fucking obvious to begin with.

 

[AK Forty Seven]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

What's the matter, AK? No "facts" to counter any of the information above?

I already did.Your conspiracy theories and opinions do not change these facts

Quote from AK Forty Seven:

Fact-We were losing 500,000+ jobs a month when Obama came into office,today we are not

Fact-When the Obama took office the stock market was in free fall,today it is not and has been on the rise under Obama


Fact -The people of Massachusetts love Obamacare .When it fully kicks in I'm sure the rest of the country will as well.Fact-All of our citizens having healthcare is a good thing

Fact-Since we are no longer losing 500,000 jobs a month,since the stock market is no longer in free fall,since Bin Landin and 22 of the top 30 Al Queada leaders are dead we are in fact better off then when Obama took office

 

[AK Forty Seven]

Quote from Tsing Tao:

While your statistic is accurate, it is so only in the spirit that statistics can lie, because you are using flawed statistics.

Fact: Unemployment data published is not accurate because it uses a flawed model that is designed to under report unemployment. Hence, using that as a measure of success by the Obama administration (or ANY administration) is pure horseshit. Instead, use the labor utilization chart I provided which shows the number of people in the workforce (which you continue to ignore) as it is statistically sound, and consistent throughout time (never been altered in methodology).

I know the numbers aren't completely accurate,but we aren't losing 500,000 plus jobs per month that we were when Obama took office

 

[AK Forty Seven]

Quote from Tsing Tao:





Again, there's no way that can be technically disputed. The market is indeed higher today than it was when Obama was elected. The misleading part comes in when you try to say that was Obama's doing - it was (is) not. You can no more thank the President for a stock market surge based on flooding the system with liquidity than you can thank someone betting on a horse to win when the jokey injects pure adrenaline into the horse right before the race. Additionally, the after effects of this poor management are equally neither the President's fault (when the economy crashes from it) or the bystander's fault (when the horse crashes after the race).

Is it Obama's fault the S+P is currently down 25 points today?

Presidential polices do have an effect on the stock market,not day to day fluctuations but over a period of years they indeed do

 

[AK Forty Seven]

Quote from Tsing Tao:




All of our citizens having $1,000,000 in their pocket is also a good thing. But that doesn't mean it should be the government who gives it to them, as the costs in doing so outweigh the benefits of having it happen.

Your "facts" are nothing more than statistical lies, trumped up garbage and misleading statements.

Fact.

$1,000,000 in their pocket isnt a need,healthcare is a need for every human being