Obama lovers, what were You thinking??

Quote from vhehn:

and yet not one nation that has it now would ever give it up. to suggest to anyone from a nation with government healthcare that they should get a system like ours would get you called crazy.
our northern neighbor, canada, has a very popular system. all polls show they would never trade for what we have.
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Just because Europe or Canada has public health care does not mean that we should. And for the record, I'm not saying that our present system does not need reform, but the presented plan is not the answer.

Just like the alcoholic that wont give up his bottle, it doesn't mean it's good for him.
 
Quote from Wallet:

I have 2 parents on it as we speak, yes without it they both would have serious problems, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is fiscally broke.

If it was audited to cut the waist and fraud, it might actually work but in it's present state not. Government has had ample time from both Republican and Democratic administrations to fix the problem, but nope hasn't been done. So why should I think that an expanded similar program will fare any better.

Hospitals are already turning away Medicare patients in some states, because they don't pay, the deficiencies in payments from admitted medicare patients are passed on to normal pay patients. This will only get worse, or the Hospitals and Doctors will be working pro bono.

Government run healtcare although it sounds ideologically superior, has a horrible track record.
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That is completely untrue. Medicare administrative costs are less than 1/2 that of private insurance companies. Private insurance companies pay mega-million salaries to CEO's and VP's: these people would make 250K max as government employees and there would be far fewer of them. The major jobs of upper management in a private insurance company is marketing, legal, and finding ways to AVOID paying for medical care. Add in the sales salaries and the 4-6% profit margin and Medicare performance is far superior. There is no need for 'selling' anything and no need for profit.

In 2007, more than 60% (6 out of 10) of personal bankrupties in America were due to medical bills. Of that 60%, 4 out of 6 of those people HAD private insurance when they got sick. When you get sick you can be sure that your insurance company will drop you as soon as they can. Nobody in Europe or Canada files bankruptcy due to medical bills.

Medicare is not broke because we can pay for medicare out of general revenues if Congress would vote to do so. Raise federal income by 5% on EVERYBODY and EVERYBODY is covered under a MEdicare-like system. If we run short of money in spite of the tax increase we can always reduce our Dept. of Offense budget by 50% (yes 50%) and still have the largest military budget on the planet.
 
Quote from RangeBar:

That is completely untrue. Medicare administrative costs are less than 1/2 that of private insurance companies. Private insurance companies pay mega-million salaries to CEO's and VP's: these people would make 250K max as government employees and there would be far fewer of them. The major jobs of upper management in a private insurance company is marketing, legal, and finding ways to AVOID paying for medical care. Add in the sales salaries and the 4-6% profit margin and Medicare performance is far superior. There is no need for 'selling' anything and no need for profit.

In 2007, more than 60% (6 out of 10) of personal bankrupties in America were due to medical bills. Of that 60%, 4 out of 6 of those people HAD private insurance when they got sick. When you get sick you can be sure that your insurance company will drop you as soon as they can. Nobody in Europe or Canada files bankruptcy due to medical bills.

Medicare is not broke because we can pay for medicare out of general revenues if Congress would vote to do so. Raise federal income by 5% on EVERYBODY and EVERYBODY is covered under a MEdicare-like system. If we run short of money in spite of the tax increase we can always reduce our Dept. of Offense budget by 50% (yes 50%) and still have the largest military budget on the planet.
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Dude you are delusional on soooo many points in that post.

One.I could give a flippy do da what anyone makes. If I can run a business and the board votes me a gazillion dollars raise, bud that’s America. Most companies are not a non-profit origination…. I don’t want the government telling me how much I can make, where does that intrusion end? Do we set the pay of the farmer, the butcher the candlestick maker?

If Medicare is so good why is it broke?

And just how much tax money should be put towards it? What about this novel idea make it self-paying?

The answer is it's full of waist and fraud, big time fraud.

On the legit side Medicare pays 80%, Medicaid 70% of normal charges, Those Hospitals that admit those patients are passing the unpaid charges to everyone else, they ain’t eating it, believe me. Guess what, those Hospitals and Doctors are not non-profit either they are there to make the BIG MONEY, remember it’s America. When those figures are cut to 50%, what do you think will happen? Is the government going to tell the doctors what their pay is going to be?

Hello?

I agree the system needs fixed, but it needs to be on the legislative end to promote better competition, open state lines, ( have you wondered why they “insurance co’s” are against it / it breaks up their strong holds), mandatory pre-existing, no caps… (which max out pay caps are one of the biggest reasons for your Bk’s) there’s plenty of ways to reform the system without the Government becoming the biggest customer and payer.

Robbing from Peter to pay Paul on deficit items is not the way to go, just fix the problem to begin with.
Tired of this nonsense.
 
Quote from vhehn:

and yet not one nation that has it now would ever give it up. to suggest to anyone from a nation with government healthcare that they should get a system like ours would get you called crazy.
our northern neighbor, canada, has a very popular system. all polls show they would never trade for what we have.
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Wow it appears it is you who is stupid. Myself and many others in canada would gladly give up our free healthcare. The only ones who think it is great and want to keep it are the same leeches who dont make enough money to pay for any of their other shit. Just wait until there are not enough doctors out there, which is inevitable. My uncle just had to be in a wheel chair for 2 years in order to get a relatively simple surgery on his hip in which he was in and out of the hospital within 3 hours. Being in a wheel chair makes life pretty difficult when you are an electrician, and he almost went bankrupt from not being able to work, since he is in a union he definately would have had insurance paid for, He almost went bankrupt without ever having to pay a hospital bill, just as many Canadians do when they get sick and have to wait forever to get any help. There is something that fat bitch Michael Moore wont tell you, many Canadians also go bankrupt as a result of being sick/injured and not being able to work, while waiting to get into the hospital for surgery. My father had to wait for 1 year to just get an MRI when the doctors found out he had two anneurisms in his brain, which if either one exploded it means instant lights out. Anyone who believes that the majority in Canada love our healthcare system is a complete and utter moron, where do yuo get your facts from Vhehn? Probably that fat bitch Michael Moore. Perhaps you should do a little research before opening your mouth and talking out of your ass just like he does. HAHA:D
 
Quote from vhehn:

its not scary to millions of senior citizens. its called medicare. i would bet that any politician that went before a group of elderly and advocated ending medicare would be run out of town on a rail.
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If you take away private insurance, medicare would not be able to continue as it sits now. Private insurance is overpriced because medicare simply doesn't pay. Don't forget all the seniors that carry supplemental insurance.
 
Quote from Wallet:

Dude you are delusional on soooo many points in that post.

One.I could give a flippy do da what anyone makes. If I can run a business and the board votes me a gazillion dollars raise, bud that’s America. Most companies are not a non-profit origination…. I don’t want the government telling me how much I can make, where does that intrusion end? Do we set the pay of the farmer, the butcher the candlestick maker?

---- I'm not saying private insurance companies can;t make money: I'm saying there is no reason for them to exist at all. ------

If Medicare is so good why is it broke?

---- Medicare is not broke: why do you keep saying that ?? As I said earlier, we would fund Medicare (or rather the new program) from General Revenue funds. We would increase federal income taxes by 5%, employers would pay their employees the amount of money that they currently pay for health benefits. -----

And just how much tax money should be put towards it? What about this novel idea make it self-paying?

---- We could make it 'self-paying'. Taxes would be increased as needed. You, me and most everybody else would be better off because of the large pool of workers under 40 need very little medical care but care would be there if needed. -----

The answer is it's full of waist and fraud, big time fraud.

---- You misspelled 'waste'. Yes, we would have to aggressively pursue fraud by offering large awards for people to turn in dishonest doctors and health care facilities. -----

On the legit side Medicare pays 80%, Medicaid 70% of normal charges, Those Hospitals that admit those patients are passing the unpaid charges to everyone else, they ain’t eating it, believe me. Guess what, those Hospitals and Doctors are not non-profit either they are there to make the BIG MONEY, remember it’s America. When those figures are cut to 50%, what do you think will happen? Is the government going to tell the doctors what their pay is going to be?

---- First, we give ALL doctors and nurses free education reducing large bills that they graduate with. Obviously, we have to pay them wages that will entice people to enter those professions. At this time our government and the AMA work to LIMIT the number of doctors. Hospitals would also be owned by the government and operated as non-profit entities (without mega-dollar salaries to Admin personnel.) -----

Hello?

I agree the system needs fixed, but it needs to be on the legislative end to promote better competition, open state lines, ( have you wondered why they “insurance co’s” are against it / it breaks up their strong holds), mandatory pre-existing, no caps… (which max out pay caps are one of the biggest reasons for your Bk’s) there’s plenty of ways to reform the system without the Government becoming the biggest customer and payer.

--- Forbidding private insurance companies from excluding pre-existing conditions means that EVERYBODY that currently pays for health insurance will have to pay more. Same thing with eliminating benefit caps. There is no way to keep private insurance companies and relying on employer-based health benefits AND 'fix' the system. Like education, everybody pays and everybody has access to health care under a nationalized system. -----

Robbing from Peter to pay Paul on deficit items is not the way to go, just fix the problem to begin with.

---- Tax revenue is tax revenue: nothing forces us to segregate funds. ---
Tired of this nonsense.
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I could not believe what I heard... the reform package that is making it's way through the sausage grinder would allow us to buy insurance after we get sick!! Is anybody else understanding it that way? Gotta love that idea.. insurance companies could just close their doors if that passes... maybe the premium would be higher.. in which case I'd treat THAT as the supplemental policy and self insure probably...
 
Now that is change you can believe in!! No one has to pay for insurance anymore until they get sick!! Another brilliant plan by the democrats, oh well once all the insurers are bankrupt the government will be in to save the day. I am starting to think Obama may just be stupid like a fox.

Quote from maxpi:

I could not believe what I heard... the reform package that is making it's way through the sausage grinder would allow us to buy insurance after we get sick!! Is anybody else understanding it that way? Gotta love that idea.. insurance companies could just close their doors if that passes... maybe the premium would be higher.. in which case I'd treat THAT as the supplemental policy and self insure probably...
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