Obama Lies Again

Why would it be so terrible if the refined oil was exported? Don't we want to encourage exports?

This is not about economics. Obama got his understanding of economics from Michael Moore anyway. It is about catering to one of the democrat party's increasingly extreme fringe groups, the hysterical AGW zealots.

If I am a private sector union guy, I am beginning to wonder who my union bosses are respresenting. This is ripe territory for republicans to pick back up. Reagan had them. You won't get them running guys like Romney though.
 
377OHMS said:
Well wait, that is true. The pipeline simply makes it so Canadian oil does not have to be shipped by train. It just puts in a bit of infrastructure that is perceived to be somewhat more permanent and higher volume.

I'm for the pipeline. I just think the people supporting the pipeline are making a mistake trying to sell the idea that it is for domestic consumption. They should just tell the truth which is that some exporting will occur.

Remember when Keystone first stalled the Canadians talked about a pipeline to a coastal terminal, clearly an export facility. China was mentioned as a customer.
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Actually having worked in Canada each week for several years now, the local Canadian politics involved with proposed pipelines is quite interesting.

The real driver in Canada for Keystone XL is that they hope the threat of building it will drive the building a pipeline to either the west or east coast of Canada (more on this later).

The problem in Canada is that all the provinces and Indian tribes (First Nations, etc.) are effectively independent entities and can demand large royalties & payments for allowing a pipeline across their land. Currently the royalty demands from all these individual entities to run a pipeline to the west coast of Canada would add $45 or more to each barrel of oil.

This drives KeyStone XL as a threat to these Canadian entities to make reasonable monetary demands or otherwise Canadian companies will build XL and just keep exporting oil to the U.S. This threat is also used to drive the potential building of refinery capacity at the Canadian coasts.

While the demand for oil in China is growing, it imports most of its oil from elsewhere. It is not likely to become a big importer from North America. A better market for Canadian oil is Europe, but building a pipeline to the east coast would require a very lengthy and expensive pipeline.

crude_oil_imports_source.png
 
gwb-trading said:
Actually having worked in Canada each week for several years now, the local Canadian politics involved with proposed pipelines is quite interesting.

The real driver in Canada for Keystone XL is that they hope the threat of building it will drive the building a pipeline to either the west or east coast of Canada (more on this later).

The problem in Canada is that all the provinces and Indian tribes (First Nations, etc.) are effectively independent entities and can demand large royalties & payments for allowing a pipeline across their land. Currently the royalty demands from all these individual entities to run a pipeline to the west coast of Canada would add $45 or more to each barrel of oil.

This drives KeyStone XL as a threat to these Canadian entities to make reasonable monetary demands or otherwise Canadian companies will build XL and just keep exporting oil to the U.S. This threat is also used to drive the potential building of refinery capacity at the Canadian coasts.

While the demand for oil in China is growing, it imports most of its oil from elsewhere. It is not likely to become a big importer from North America. A better market for Canadian oil is Europe, but building a pipeline to the east coast would require a very lengthy and expensive pipeline.

crude_oil_imports_source.png
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The beautiful irony of that is Native Americans opposing the pipeline for the same reasons the First Nations of Canada do. Each government can point to the other and wonder, "can't you get your Indians in line?" :D
 
Ricter said:
The beautiful irony of that is Native Americans opposing the pipeline for the same reasons the First Nations of Canada do. Each government can point to the other and wonder, "can't you get your Indians in line?" :D
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Actually the native Americans in Canada are among the more supportive of building a pipeline across Canada, the tribal elders very much want royalty money from oil pipelines (except their demands in some cases are absurd). Tribes are actually competing in some instances to convince pipeline builders to go across their land rather than the neighboring tribe's land. The bottom line is that a pipeline will make the tribal elders rich, but most of the non-executive Native Americans will get nothing - except more poverty.

The non-oil provinces in Canada are much more in opposition of building a pipeline. They view that a pipeline is just a way of making Alberta rich - therefore many of the provinces throw up ridiculous demands to scuttle the proposed pipeline projects. Keystone XL is viewed as a way of twisting their arms so the provinces are more accommodating.
 
Nebraska judge stops TransCanada from digging for Keystone right-of-way
Paul Koring

WASHINGTON — The Globe and Mail
Published Thursday, Feb. 12 2015, 5:30 PM EST
Last updated Thursday, Feb. 12 2015, 5:36 PM EST

"A Nebraska judge ordered a halt on Thursday to TransCanada Corp.’s efforts to force recalcitrant Nebraska landowners to allow the company to dig up their property for the Keystone XL right-of-way."

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