Obama - "Defund the Police" undermines Democrats

[TreeFrogTrader]

mountains out of molehills brosepho:

A Monmouth University Polling Institute poll from June 26-June 30, 2020, asked the question, "When you hear people say they want to 'Defund the Police' – do you think most of them really want to get rid of police departments or do you think most of them just want to change the way police departments operate?" 77% responded that the slogan means people want to "Change the way police operate", and 17% responded that the term means to "get rid of police".[60]

Sounds like a leading question in that poll.

I would might like to see polls with questions such as:

When Los Angeles cut its police budget by 150 million, do you think they actually intended to cut it by 150 million?

When Portland cut its police budget by 50 million, do you think they actually did that or do you feel that you know what they really meant to do even though they just cut it by 50 million?

When New Orleans cuts its police budget by 16 million, do you think they really meant to do that or they meant to do something else?


I don't give a fuck what people think is meant by that slogan. The reality is that the crazy shiite has led to reductions in police funding and safety. Maybe Marianne Williamson has an essential oil for that and can send social workers out to adjust your chakras and balance your ying and yang, but in regard to basic police protection. That is being defunded in lots of places based on loon-centric thinking.

 

[El OchoCinco]

mountains out of molehills brosepho:

A Monmouth University Polling Institute poll from June 26-June 30, 2020, asked the question, "When you hear people say they want to 'Defund the Police' – do you think most of them really want to get rid of police departments or do you think most of them just want to change the way police departments operate?" 77% responded that the slogan means people want to "Change the way police operate", and 17% responded that the term means to "get rid of police".[60]

Dont use polls to negate what was on the TV every single night and the young ins asking for no more police and Seattle being taken over and police being asked to leave so they can run their own rape and murder show.

Also, I love when someone gives me a poll to support a BELIEF (polls dont support facts as you know)

This is why polls suck:

Your poll was from June 2020. This is way early in the election cycle.

Your poll asked 867 people. From where.....what part of the country....how did they verify political affiliation and diversity. Oh that is right they didnt because...

41% of poll respondents SELF IDENTIFIED as INDEPENDENT. Most IND have voted more DEM or have more left leaning political bias. Add that to the 31% who SELF IDENTIFIED as DEMs you have in my opinion a good chance of 70% of the polled being Dems or left leaning and not representing the louder portion of the party calling for removal of the police. You think someone on the poll is going to not answer their personal belief versus what the questions asked them. A mostly white, liberal poll population is going to give the pollyana answer here.

The question is what do you think people think when they hear Defund the Police... so 867 people are being asked to tell me what they think people think??? riiiiiiight...

The question gave a binary choice of get rid of police entirely or change the way they operate. Shitty binary option. Most people would agree they should not be abolished completely but many were advocating for 50-75% budget cuts and reducing them to a tiny force. that is not represented in this binary poll choice.

60% of the polled were white....who do you think really supported the platform of defund the police... minorities. Do the poll again with 0% whites and tell me what the result is.


Polls......just to let you know I have a Masters that includes Econometrics and Statistics and this poll can be ripped apart in as blink of an eye.

Defund the police was a stupid strategy to deal with this issue and the Dems and pussy leaders missed out on a great momentum time to effect real reforms in the departments rather than let fucktards take over city blocks.

 

[Cuddles]

Dont use polls to negate what was on the TV every single night and the young ins asking for no more police and Seattle being taken over and police being asked to leave so they can run their own rape and murder show.

Also, I love when someone gives me a poll to support a BELIEF (polls dont support facts as you know)

so don't use polls to negate what was on TV every single night to support a belief but use what was shown on TV every single night to support a belief? Is that your argument?

So fine, the poll's imperfect. But you and I are just sharing opinions without numbers if on one side, one makes the reasonable argument that people won't take kindly to the messaging of "defund the police" while on the other hand someone makes the reasonable argument that a message that "pops and/or shocks" the consciousness has a level of effectiveness than the run of the mill tried and true messages haven't so far, and as the poll to our horror shows can be interpreted as reformist and not abolitionist. It's not like the police force's been given less power over the years with the typical messaging.

 

[TreeFrogTrader]

But you and I are just sharing opinions without numbers

Not sure you are talking to me but if so, when I posted, I posted numbers for 3-4 cities and those were actual numbers for those cities.

I stand by the point that I made. Whether you understand it or not is neither here nor there to me.

You could also be replying to someone that I have on ignore, in which case, have a nice day.

 

[El OchoCinco]

so don't use polls to negate what was on TV every single night to support a belief but use what was shown on TV every single night to support a belief? Is that your argument?

So fine, the poll's imperfect. But you and I are just sharing opinions without numbers if on one side, one makes the reasonable argument that people won't take kindly to the messaging of "defund the police" while on the other hand someone makes the reasonable argument that a message that "pops and/or shocks" the consciousness has a level of effectiveness than the run of the mill tried and true messages haven't so far, and as the poll to our horror shows can be interpreted as reformist and not abolitionist. It's not like the police force's been given less power over the years with the typical messaging.

my point is the radical side of the party ran with the defund the police and it allowed the right to say it was the platform of the entire Democratic party in many districts. Biden and other candidates never stepped in to temper the anger against all police and the defund argument and let it run its course. It did some damage to the results in Congressional elections in states where Biden won but did not gain seats.

The poll was from June and was not reflective of the environment the months leading into the election.

The Dems let the radical elements of BLM and Defund the police get exaggerated by the right without any attempt to present a more powerful message. I liken it to Hillary simple letting Donald put his foot in his mouth and thinking that it would allow her to win. Dems figured they woudl not anger elements of the base to get their support which gave AOC and others too much mouth without any political savy.

This defund the police thing will go away because in all honesty it is Governors and City Councils domain not Congress or the President so anyone who believe a politican at the level had say in this shows how stupid our electorate is on both sides.

But Dems missed a great chance to say "Hey the message we want to get out is that this has to change and lets work with the police to provide proper training, better techniques, more support, better oversight, more firings of unfit officers, and review to make sure cops follow the laws they enforce etc... would have won on both sides.

 

[Cuddles]

my point is the radical side of the party ran with the defund the police and it allowed the right to say it was the platform of the entire Democratic party in many districts. Biden and other candidates never stepped in to temper the anger against all police and the defund argument and let it run its course. It did some damage to the results in Congressional elections in states where Biden won but did not gain seats.

The poll was from June and was not reflective of the environment the months leading into the election.

The Dems let the radical elements of BLM and Defund the police get exaggerated by the right without any attempt to present a more powerful message. I liken it to Hillary simple letting Donald put his foot in his mouth and thinking that it would allow her to win. Dems figured they woudl not anger elements of the base to get their support which gave AOC and others too much mouth without any political savy.

This defund the police thing will go away because in all honesty it is Governors and City Councils domain not Congress or the President so anyone who believe a politican at the level had say in this shows how stupid our electorate is on both sides.

But Dems missed a great chance to say "Hey the message we want to get out is that this has to change and lets work with the police to provide proper training, better techniques, more support, better oversight, more firings of unfit officers, and review to make sure cops follow the laws they enforce etc... would have won on both sides.

Listen, I find the far left annoying, entitled and condescending at times but I just don't buy this hit piece narrative of "they cost us seats". It just reeks of lazy finger pointing for having ran piss poor "orange man bad" campaigns that offered the people nothing of substance other than being the lesser of two choices. Yes, perhaps the messaging hurt "sensibilities", and the old guard may have a point, but from where I'm sitting it's just them trying to save their own hide by relying on people's preconceived biases and preference of scapegoating the uppity loudmouth lefties.

I remain open to the notion mind you, but all I'm seeing is "establishment so-and-so said so, so it must be true" without numbers to back up their roasting.

 

[Mercor]

If the public had supported "defund the police" the democrats would not be working this hard to change the meaning of it.

Its the dog whistle trick used the other way. Dog whistle is a rhetoric tool that allows one to not take the meaning of words as spoken but to create meaning from what you think a person really means ( used mostly to determine that everything a Trump says is racist)

In this case the democrats are pulling out the dog whistle to have you not believe what they actually said but what they "really mean" (usually determined after seeing polls)

 

[gwb-trading]

Yep this "Defund the Police" movement is really going to gather "mainstream support"

Minneapolis — home of the 'defund the police' movement — just saw a 'staggering' 537% rise in violent carjackings
https://www.theblaze.com/news/minneapolis-rise-in-violent-carjackings

 

[Tsing Tao]

Yep this "Defund the Police" movement is really going to gather "mainstream support"

Minneapolis — home of the 'defund the police' movement — just saw a 'staggering' 537% rise in violent carjackings
https://www.theblaze.com/news/minneapolis-rise-in-violent-carjackings

Exactly. Like I said, keep up the experiment so we can be sure the dumbass idea is silenced forever once results are seen. If we have to sacrifice the citizens of Minneapolis in the progress, it is unfortunate. But they voted these yambags into office. We reap what we sow.

 

[gwb-trading]

Exactly. Like I said, keep up the experiment so we can be sure the dumbass idea is silenced forever once results are seen. If we have to sacrifice the citizens of Minneapolis in the progress, it is unfortunate. But they voted these yambags into office. We reap what we sow.

We are seeing the same results in Durham, North Carolina which now has the greatest number of shootings in a single year and 2020 is not even over yet.

Durham has a progressive city council where most of the council members support "defund the police" (and have reduced their budget and hiring). Durham is also saddled with a progressive DA who believes in no cash bail for the majority of crimes -- which has created a revolving door justice system over the past 18 months.