Obama: Capitalism dosen't work and it has never worked

[logic_man]

Quote from trefoil:

You're right about booms & busts, but usury used to be illegal; generally speaking, no one could charge over 21%.
The problem was the usury laws were at the state level, which was fine before interstate banking became legal. Once it did, the usury laws were thrown out by the Supreme Court.
The solution, of course, is to ban this at the Federal level, but the bankers' and payday lender's lobby is too strong to allow that to happen. A large part of the reason our economy became so finance oriented in the run-up to 2008 had to do with usury no longer being illegal. A large part of the solution to making sure 2008 doesn't happen again is banning it federally.

I don't know, man, how much of the total debt outstanding has an interest rate over 21%? I doubt even 10% of it does. I think even revolving credit only averages 14-15% interest rates. Yeah, that's pretty steep but that debt is fairly risky, so obviously it's going to cost people more to use. And people's primary debt is their home and no way most people's mortgage is anywhere near the rates on their credit cards. So, I don't think that most debt outstanding would see any change in interest rates being charged even if you did bring back usury laws.

I think the reason that the economy became so finance-heavy is because that's where the US had a comparative advantage. Switzerland, Luxembourg and Lichtenstein have been finance-heavy for generations and they are amongst the wealthiest countries in the world. The problem is that model isn't scalable to a country of 300 million people, the vast majority of whom are idiots.

 

[Lornz]

Quote from logic_man:

So, I say again, we can't all be winners in life.

Thanks for reminding us!

 

[logic_man]

Quote from Lornz:

Thanks for reminding us!

Someone has to be the realist. We can't all live in fantasy land.

 

[Lornz]

Quote from logic_man:

Someone has to be the realist. We can't all live in fantasy land.

You apparently possess superhuman reasoning skills. I'm quite certain that the majority of my trading capital has been transferred to your account.

Happy Easter!

 

[logic_man]

Quote from Lornz:

You apparently possess superhuman reasoning skills. I'm quite certain that the majority of my trading capital has been transferred to your account.

Happy Easter!

Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. According to the data I've seen, speculators who are profitable tend to take those profits from hedgers, so, if you're a hedger, maybe I have taken the opposite side of your trades in the past.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from Free Thinker:

did you have a difficult time understanding that? maybe if you listened to the rest of his point you could grasp it.




he is exactly right.

NO he's not.

 

[peilthetraveler]

Quote from logic_man:

Such a world would probably regress technologically so that we'd go back to living like the original Christians. I don't see any point in doing that.

Heaven forbid if we deteriorated into a world without Facebook, iphones & internet porn.

 

[logic_man]

Quote from peilthetraveler:

Heaven forbid if we deteriorated into a world without Facebook, iphones & internet porn.

Or vaccinations, organ transplants, antibiotics, refrigeration.

The "simple life" is always an option for the individual. Seriously, no one is stopping you.

 

[trefoil]

Quote from logic_man:

I don't know, man, how much of the total debt outstanding has an interest rate over 21%? I doubt even 10% of it does. I think even revolving credit only averages 14-15% interest rates. Yeah, that's pretty steep but that debt is fairly risky, so obviously it's going to cost people more to use. And people's primary debt is their home and no way most people's mortgage is anywhere near the rates on their credit cards. So, I don't think that most debt outstanding would see any change in interest rates being charged even if you did bring back usury laws.

I think the reason that the economy became so finance-heavy is because that's where the US had a comparative advantage. Switzerland, Luxembourg and Lichtenstein have been finance-heavy for generations and they are amongst the wealthiest countries in the world. The problem is that model isn't scalable to a country of 300 million people, the vast majority of whom are idiots.

Like most, you have a rather innocent view of the credit industry. The rate may not be advertised as 21%, but throw in a 3% transaction fee, say, on a check on your credit card's line, said credit card already charging 17% to start with, and you're there.
And then there's all the other fees. A correctly written usury law would take the all-in cost, including fees. Believe me I've been on the other side, and that's exactly how the banks calculate it for themselves: they call it the "all-in cost of money". And they are very clever at making sure the all-in cost for the average joe is a lot higher than what he thinks it is.

 

[logic_man]

Quote from trefoil:

Like most, you have a rather innocent view of the credit industry. The rate may not be advertised as 21%, but throw in a 3% transaction fee, say, on a check on your credit card's line, said credit card already charging 17% to start with, and you're there.
And then there's all the other fees. A correctly written usury law would take the all-in cost, including fees. Believe me I've been on the other side, and that's exactly how the banks calculate it for themselves: they call it the "all-in cost of money". And they are very clever at making sure the all-in cost for the average joe is a lot higher than what he thinks it is.

Fine, but even if you could go back and have usury laws in place in 2008, I doubt that much would have happened differently. What tipped the applecart was far more dependent upon the oil price spike than debt service costs. The latter became an issue because of the former.