Obama: Capitalism dosen't work and it has never worked

Quote from trefoil:

Likewise, especially since this is the first time I've ever heard that oddball theory. I mean, you just assert, with no cite to back you up, that subprime mortgages were written for houses that were at a larger distance from city centers. Then you assert, with no cite to back it up, that the chain of causation went from oil to disposable income to layoffs to defaults to the crisis.
Extraordinary claims require proof. Proof <> the chain of logic in your head.

I can't help it if you don't read much.

I'm only the least bit interested in real estate and I've heard the saying "Drive till you qualify", i.e. start from an urban area and just drive until you reach a place where you can get a mortgage. That equals longer commutes, which equals more income put toward the purchase of fuel and so on.

But, if you prefer to believe that bringing back some medieval doctrine on usury is the key to modern global economic growth, by all means knock your socks off. I'll stick with explanations that are a bit more concrete, like the price of oil.
 
Quote from MarketMasher:

Good thing it didn't have anything to do with underwriting no-doc loans that were then bundled under a bribed AAA rating and sold off around the world.

If your house of cards crashes from a breeze, is it because of the breeze, or because you built your house from a deck of cards? :D

And the reason why those no-doc loans became an issue is because of the oil price spike. Had oil prices not spiked, those loans would have continued to be paid.

Have either of you ever heard of the distinction between "cause" and "effect"? You should check it out, it's really mind-blowing.
 
Quote from Grandluxe:

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Another example and another reason of why Odumbo has no business being president.

It was Capitalism and Liberty which made America the great country it was.

It's State-ism/Socialism/Communism/Progressive-ism and the sense of entitlement which is sending us down the toilet.... that plus our rationalization to be involved in "wars" all the time... which is really an excuse to overspend on the military industrial complex and to run deficits which appear to goose the economy (inflationary, of course).

I've come to HATE the way this country is being run!

:mad:
 
Quote from achilles28:

Answer what, exactly? It's really a non-sequitur. Idiot Presidents are the norm, not the exception. That's more a function of the race being a popularity contest (idiots voting for idiots), and which candidate has the most skeletons. Few economists, let alone politicians, understand the origin of wealth and how Government policy affects it. What Presidents do bring to the table is their own cliched ideologies, and Barack is no exception. I doubt if Bush was asked how tax cuts help spur job creation, he couldn't answer it. He was right for the wrong reasons. Barack is sorta a marxist throwback with no idea how things fit together, yet feels confident enough to declare the key tenets of the meritocratic system - a system that's produced the most wealth the world has ever seen - a "failure". That's a complete joke. It would be funny, and it often is (on university campuses), if he wern't so powerful. There's so many things wrong with this line of thought, it's difficult to enumerate in a single post. What gets me the most, and I don't want to turn this into a left versus right shit-fest, anti-capitalist types promote hardcore socialism and communism as the "answer" to wealth disparity, when those two systems created the most appalling humanitarian conditions the world saw in the past hundred years. And it's completely predictable under the free-market, capitalist approach. All an American needs to do is look around. There's no other country on the face of the earth that's created as much wealth as America, under a capitalist, SEMI free market system. That's how powerful the free market is. If it was a true free market, with honest money, we'd be close to a utopian paradise by now.

RCG - Owned again.
 
Quote from achilles28:

Again, this is more clap-trap. Would you work just as hard as you do today for 20% of your paycheck? Instead of the ~70%+ you keep now? Do you honestly think any American laborer, entrepreneur or investor would risk thousands of hours of sweat equity and precious, hard-earned capital to only keep 20 PERCENT of their gross profit? This is laughable and beyond comprehension. There's so much disinformation out there, it becomes a headache to weed through it. Those Laffer studies do not include pre-1980's China, Russia, India, Africa and much of South America. They do not include them for a reason. That reason is socialism/communism and Government expropriation are the norm in those countries (read: ~excessive taxation), which creates EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE conditions Laffer studies predict = grinding third-world level, shithole poverty. When Keynesian economists set out to make the case for socialism/communism, they don't include social/commie 3rd world hell holes in their research. However, they do include the very few and notable examples where it has worked (Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Germany), point to the Nordic Tigers as the New Way Forward, and conveniently sweep one thousand years of economic history under the rug, hoping nobody will catch on. For every socialist success story, a Germany or a Sweden, there are TWENTY COUNTRIES where socialism/communism failed miserably, with terrible human consequences. What the spoon-fed pap eaters need to understand is they're being sold revisionist history. Keynesian's are talking their book. Their studies are cherry-picked to prove a forgone conclusion which ignore the gaping holes that would render socialism and communism an unworkable fraud (in >95% of cases). High regulation, high taxes and central banking all go hand-in-hand. Conventionally, we refer to that system of Government as socialism. In order to make Central Banking palatable, the Keynesian's have to make socialism palatable. This is their stock in trade. This is the problem with liberal arts degrees. Social sciences are a mixture of art and science. Plenty of room for interpretation depending on the ideological starting point. Most of these trained PhD's you put so much faith in, are indoctrinated with one side of the story, given a very narrow and slanted interpretation of their field, are graded and accredited based on their allegiance to that narrative, then go out in their "productive years" and regurgitate papers and books that are in accordance with that fairy tale. Then, the idiot laymen hold up their work as "impartial" and "unbiased", not understanding how the "authorities" they trust were indoctrinated themselves (effectively a sophisticated form of propaganda), and go on to regurgitate their regurgitations, thinking themselves as somehow learned and on the "cutting edge" of intellectual thought. The net result is an echo chamber where societies underlyings repeat what their academic "authorities" have to say, who are basically victims of propaganda, themselves, to varying degrees.

As far as America and it's 90% tax rates in the US, only on paper. The top income earners paid nowhere close to that amount because the IRS included generous exemptions. I think the effective rate was around 40-50%. Another canard the Keynesian love to throw out there... As for the post-war boom era, all the major industrial powers were destroyed and were forced to rebuild. America was the only country of significance with an industrial capacity left, and essentially rebuilt the world with it's exports. That's why we boomed. Not because of some retarded 95% tax rate nobody paid.... This is the propaganda they're feeding you.

I am no socialist but would be fine with the Clinton tax rates. That would at least help fill the deficit hole we are in. In general, I think that the top tax rates should only apply to the very top of the income scale, i.e., income in the multiple millions. I think most of middle class, even wealthy middle class (few million a year) should remain at around 35% or so.
 
Quote from ssrrkk:

I am no socialist but would be fine with the Clinton tax rates. That would at least help fill the deficit hole we are in. In general, I think that the top tax rates should only apply to the very top of the income scale, i.e., income in the multiple millions. I think most of middle class, even wealthy middle class (few million a year) should remain at around 35% or so.

Progressive tax rates, though politically popular and easy to sell to the unwashed masses, are DISCRIMINATORY!... and immoral. (IOW... If I make 10X what you make, I should pay 10X what you pay in taxes... not 50X.)

If you valued genuine fairness, you'd see things differently.
 
Quote from Scataphagos:

Progressive tax rates, though politically popular and easy to sell to the unwashed masses, are DISCRIMINATORY!... and immoral.

If you valued genuine fairness, you'd see things differently.

If I am told that making 10 million a year will lead to a 40% tax rate, whereas making 2 million will be 35%, I will still work hard to try to earn 10 million. At the same time, I would make sure the tax money is being spent on important things that the markets can't take care of: basic research, infrastructure, health care, defense, education, police, etc.
 
Quote from Free Thinker:

any student of history should know that capitalism without rules will fail.

"I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system," George Bush

he should be remembered in disgrace for the above, not the war in iraq. he paved the way for obama to run with the nanny state drug for the american people.

pure disgust.
 
Quote from ssrrkk:

If I am told that making 10 million a year will lead to a 40% tax rate, whereas making 2 million will be 35%, I will still work hard to try to earn 10 million. At the same time, I would make sure the tax money is being spent on important things that the markets can't take care of: basic research, infrastructure, health care, defense, education, police, etc.

As a taxpayer, you can't "make sure of how the money is spent". Progressive tax rates are DISCRIMINATORY.

We (well, not me... I mean YOU) moral and high-fallutin' idealists scorn discrimination based upon race, religion, gender, sexual preference... even even WEIGHT... yet we tolerate discrimination based upon INCOME.

(America is against discrimination... both morally and legally.... except when it comes to income. Pragmatic, for sure.... still discriminatory and WRONG!!)
 
Quote from Scataphagos:

As a taxpayer, you can't "make sure of how the money is spent".

Sure you can, it's called being informed and voting accordingly.
 
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