Obama and the Minister

Obama is like Bush in one in one respect...

I think Obama wants to lead more than he wants to serve the will of the people...

I think this photo tells a lot of the story...there is enough nuance and subtlety in that photo that I believe reveals much of what Obama doesn't want people to see.


<img src=http://www.republicaupdate.com/images/2007/06/06/hillary_and_obama.jpg>








Oh, and I rate Bill Clinton as more intelligent than Obama...



Quote from Hansel H:

Obama listens, but how much does he accept. Obama seems to be a very sophisticated individual capable of making his own judgements. I wasn't much of an Obama fan before today but after hearing his speech addressing the uproar about his pastor I'm convinced this guy is far and away the most intelligent candidate for president the U.S. has had in ages.

I thought he showed character confirming his relationship with Rev. Wright while rejecting Wright's message.

Obama's going to lose. As the campaign moves along Obama will be more alientaed from the public as the public begins to reralize how complex he is.

Clinton vs McCain.
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Quote from Hansel H:

Obama's been outed as a thinker.
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He's been outed alright - outed as supporter of a racist and hateful organization filled with like-minded people. How much of a thinker is he for exposing his daughters to America bashing hate speech and racism throughout their lives?
 
Complicated thinking is not necessarily sophisticated.

Is Obama a thinker? Perhaps, but who knows what he is really thinking, beyond thinking about being President and playing the game in a manner that he thinks will win the game.

Sorry, but when I see Obama, I see someone who memorized and practiced the speeches of MLK, who listened to the cadence and delivery of MLK and other orators, and is slick enough to practice the law of politics on the unsuspecting.

If Obama chose a spiritual leader like Wright... associated himself with a spiritual advisor who is essentially a politician in the pulpit, then I believe Obama's bottom line with his own personal religion is one of expediency in the world, not the simplicity of a personal relation with God for the sake of redemption from personal sin and deeper relationship on a spiritual level with God...God is a tool for Obama in my opinion, not a path to become an instrument of God's will...nor an instrument of the people's will.

Quote from Hansel H:

CNN commentators claimed that Obama wrote the speech. I suspect that he hires speech writers to keep his message simple; his own thinking is too sophisticated to be accepted by the public.

Obama's been outed as a thinker. He's doomed.
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Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
believe Obama's bottom line with his own personal religion is one of expediency in the world, not the simplicity of a personal relation with God for the sake of redemption from personal sin...God is a tool for Obama in my opinion, not an instrument of God's will...
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This has long been a beef of mine with Bush, and then Romney. Oddly enough I felt Huckabee was honest in his faith, but I could never vote for a creationist. Personally I strongly believe in the separation of church and state, and have little tolerance for either politicians touting their faith or odious legislation trying to push religion into my face. Particularly in the times we live in now, with religious extremists using other peoples faith against them.

It is certainly the first time for me that I can listen to a politician discuss his faith and feel comfortable with that. I would hope that those on the right that are truly Christians, and care about their faith, can see the benefit of that. If weaving the positive aspects of religion more firmly into our daily lives is really the goal - then it is hard to deny a stronger embrace of that from the left is beneficial.

Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:
associated himself with a spiritual advisor who is essentially a politician in the pulpit,[/B]
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This was similar in some ways to my reaction when watching the Wright videos as well. I watched them on YouTube in order to find what I hoped to be an unbiased source of un-doctored video. My first reaction was that the church should lose its tax-exempt status. I realize that the church is part of the community and as such cannot separate itself from politics, but the pulpit is not where it belongs.

The speech helped to clarify that for me. I still don't care for this pastor, but I know longer question his membership in the church.

-

His refusal to shun Wright is something I can understand.

I come from a rural area. I left long ago but my family remains there. Obviously I visit. In an even more remote part of the country there is a family who is good friends with mine. Some of them, at least one guy for sure and his son, are blatantly racist. But they treat me well, and they treat my wife well (I'm in an interracial marriage). In particular they treat my old man very well, I could never repay them for what they have done by befriending him and giving him a place to hang out and enjoy life.

I don't like what they say. And I don't like them saying it around my brothers kids. But I would never disown them. And I would never walk away from them if they needed help.

Life is not cut and dry.
 
What an incredible double standard liberals hold. Imagine if George W Bush had Archie Bunker as a pastor, councilor, mentor and friend. Imagine the liberal outrage. Imagine the media going completely bonkers.

Now imagine if Barack Obama had a black Archie Bunker as a pastor, councilor, mentor and friend. No wait - you don't have to imagine it. Obama does have a black Archie Bunker as a pastor, councilor, mentor and friend. And he has allowed this black Archie Bunker to teach his children. And his family is friends with people from this congregation who cheer on this black Archie Bunker when he spews his hate and racism.

Imagine if liberals didn't hold immense double standards...

(This is probably not completely fair to Archie Bunker - at least he was a patriot.)
 
Wright is not Archie Bunker.

And neither is Falwell.

A real comparison would be if McCain took his family to Falwells church for services. You want to discuss that - sure.

Leave extremism for the lazy.
 
Very few under 50 know who Archie Bunker is. Do you really think that you're appealing to you demographic?



Quote from Gord:

What an incredible double standard liberals hold. Imagine if George W Bush had Archie Bunker as a pastor, councilor, mentor and friend. Imagine the liberal outrage. Imagine the media going completely bonkers.

Now imagine if Barack Obama had a black Archie Bunker as a pastor, councilor, mentor and friend. No wait - you don't have to imagine it. Obama does have a black Archie Bunker as a pastor, councilor, mentor and friend. And he has allowed this black Archie Bunker to teach his children. And his family is friends with people from this congregation who cheer on this black Archie Bunker when he spews his hate and racism.

Imagine if liberals didn't hold immense double standards...
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He has been practicing that speech or variants of it for several years....

He is the perfect candidate for Dems as they prefer style over substance..

Nice dresser, good looking, talks about vague solutions to big problems, kind of reminds you of Miss America pagent...

End world hunger, bring people together to sing.....etc etc...

Can anyone name one concrete, practical proposal as a solution to any problem......

Can anyone name ANYTHING he has done in Senate????

He is truly an "empty suit".....

If he were truly as smart as Dems say, he would bow out now to not disrupt Dem party....seen as a matyr.....take one for the team...get elected as Gov of Illinois....come back in 8 years...then he might have a shot....

If he wins nomination and gets killed by McCain...career over...stick a fork in him.....he's done......
 
Seems to me that Obama has not yet outgrown his former teacher...

That Obama...as he grew in his relationship with God never sought out more than than Wright could offer seems curious to me.

I understand going to church for association of like minded people, that the congregation is like a family, but I don't get a deep sense of spiritual longing for more from Obama.

Obama's focus is leading in this world...

Which is the same as all the other politicians.

Obama has the same lust for power that I see in all of them...

Sorry, but I view Obama as a detached intellectual when it comes to these matters, not as a man of deep personal faith who is on a mission to serve God.

Politicians who have a need to explain their faith to the voters are running for office, not dwelling in a spiritual relationship with God.

The more a politician talks about their personal faith on the campaign trail, the more they are nothing but a politician using their faith for political purposes.

Make no mistake, Obama's speech today was not intended to enlighten the voters nor inspire them on their own personal journey...it was for the sake of the election.


Quote from Pondracer:

This has long been a beef of mine with Bush, and then Romney. Oddly enough I felt Huckabee was honest in his faith, but I could never vote for a creationist. Personally I strongly believe in the separation of church and state, and have little tolerance for either politicians touting their faith or odious legislation trying to push religion into my face. Particularly in the times we live in now, with religious extremists using other peoples faith against them.

It is certainly the first time for me that I can listen to a politician discuss his faith and feel comfortable with that. I would hope that those on the right that are truly Christians, and care about their faith, can see the benefit of that. If weaving the positive aspects of religion more firmly into our daily lives is really the goal - then it is hard to deny a stronger embrace of that from the left is beneficial.



This was similar in some ways to my reaction when watching the Wright videos as well. I watched them on YouTube in order to find what I hoped to be an unbiased source of un-doctored video. My first reaction was that the church should lose its tax-exempt status. I realize that the church is part of the community and as such cannot separate itself from politics, but the pulpit is not where it belongs.

The speech helped to clarify that for me. I still don't care for this pastor, but I know longer question his membership in the church.

-

His refusal to shun Wright is something I can understand.

I come from a rural area. I left long ago but my family remains there. Obviously I visit. In an even more remote part of the country there is a family who is good friends with mine. Some of them, at least one guy for sure and his son, are blatantly racist. But they treat me well, and they treat my wife well (I'm in an interracial marriage). In particular they treat my old man very well, I could never repay them for what they have done by befriending him and giving him a place to hang out and enjoy life.

I don't like what they say. And I don't like them saying it around my brothers kids. But I would never disown them. And I would never walk away from them if they needed help.

Life is not cut and dry.
More...
 
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