Yes its all over get your series 55 before your in the street begging for change see you monday GrVoe aka sniper
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NYSE trading Dead?? Hybrid??? End of alot of traders
- Thread starter gimp570
- Start date
Quote from GATrader:
I am still a bit fuzzy on trade thru rules which are in effect now for I route all my orders to NYSE. But I was experimenting with using ISLD and routed a sell 100 to route ISLD at .08 when the NBBO was .10B .12 offered on a stock at the NYSE. Surpisingly, I got filled at .08 so in effect I traded thru the NBBO. I asked a neigbor at Lava who is really familiar with routing and he said that as long as the routes don't originate at NYSE it can print outside the NBBO. I don't know if he misunderstood or I misunderstood. I have always thought that in listeds you can't violate the NBBO.
This is why I posed this question. If you can violate the NBBO by routing directly to ECN, what is preventing the Fidelities of the world from just positng bids/offer for size on the ECN's? In other words what makes the mkt particiapants still gravitate to the specialist when they can just use the ECN's like the INTC and MFST?
This is a great post, because it displays how good the current system actually is. If the Fidelity's would stop bitching about specialist abuse and just trade through ECN's and regionals then we could all be happy. But, they want to have their cake and eat it too (whatever that really means). The bottom line is that specialists already offer liquidity replenish points usually within a quarter of the inside market (which means anyone can easily execute 10-50k shares at any time on average). The problem is that Fidelity wants to pinch pennies...they want more liquidity. The hybrid market isn't going to create the kind of liquidity they want...only other large participants can do that. The hybrid system won't create liquidity out of thin air. It could possibly even thin out the market, like the genius decimal system.
By the way, and this is the second time i've expained this in two days which I consider scary for pro traders...everyone can currently legally trade through NY inside market with ECN's. The rule is that a specialist can not trade through a regional market (im not talking about ECNs) to execute a DOT order...totally different. They get fined if they trade though a regional, I even saw this happen live when I was watching a specialist trade on the NY floor when I got to visit last year. If this is not the case for you, it means you have a crappy broker who has safeguards built in to the software. Get a new broker if this is the case...it is crucial to be able to execute outside of the NY market on occasion.
Quote from Dustin:
..................The hybrid market isn't going to create the kind of liquidity they want...only other large participants can do that. The hybrid system won't create liquidity out of thin air. It could possibly even thin out the market, like the genius decimal system.
........................
THATS THE PROBLEM... THE DAMN DECIMALS (one cent increments to be exact). it has caused so much fragmentation of size that even in some liquid issues i am having trouble transacting orders. i cant imagine being the broker in charge of doing size for fidelity. they probably have had to use the big bank's algos to break up their orders. again, create a problem and then offer the solution. it is a scam created by 100 pricing points per dollar. then you bring in a slow specialist and he just gets in the way or freezes the book so he can catch up. i just dont see how the hybrid is going to be any better....but i will keep an open mind.
Do you think the hybrid/NMS rule will make Openbook less impt and more fake sizes prevalent . Think about it, if you are an institution and want to make a stock feel heavy you can post a big offer 10 cents higher so u can work the bid and then cancel the offer. The problem with that is under the current rules, the specialist can freeze the book and take out your fake offer before you get an out from him. With fast mkts everywhere, your ability to cancel in a split second is enhanced which means you can put fake offers/bids even closer to the last pr since u know your CXL is 1 second away and not subjected to spec freezes. Am I wrong? or way off.? Thanks
Quote from GATrader:
Do you think the hybrid/NMS rule will make Openbook less impt and more fake sizes prevalent . Think about it, if you are an institution and want to make a stock feel heavy you can post a big offer 10 cents higher so u can work the bid and then cancel the offer. The problem with that is under the current rules, the specialist can freeze the book and take out your fake offer before you get an out from him. With fast mkts everywhere, your ability to cancel in a split second is enhanced which means you can put fake offers/bids even closer to the last pr since u know your CXL is 1 second away and not subjected to spec freezes. Am I wrong? or way off.? Thanks
you just figured out the "flippers" m.o. in the treasuries..LOL LOL LOL except it is so tight... they are playing this game on the current bid/ask.
Ratboy, I did not figure out the MO of flippers. I came from open outcry where your bid/ask is only good when blurted out. In addition, there was a long thread 6 months back about flippers in the Bund I believe. I do think that that kind of M.O. will be a lot more prevalent in NY(if not already). The upcoming big difference is that whereas now those big fake sizes are 7-15 cents up so the taper readers can see it in the openbook, it might be 1-3 cents closer to the last trade since they can cxl much faster w/o human intervention.
that was my point... in the electronic futures markets such as the treasuries... "flipping" is prevalent. biggest difference being there are very few products in the futures markets, therefore you have tight spreads with big size. therefore, it will play out differently with the nyse issues. should be interesting....
Ratboy, I share your sentiments as to the possible effect on changing all equities into fast markets. There was a thread 2 weeks ago asking for advise on how to learn to tape read the spec and I posited that efforts might be better directed towards other things other than reading level 2, bid/ask size, stepping down clean up prints,etc. I don't think there would be too much of those in the new environment. Again it is a moving target but the trend is clearly away from tick trading.
In this month's SFO magazine, Linda Rachske also mentions trying to get away from looking at bids/ offers too much, but focusing more on a slightly longer trend.
In this month's SFO magazine, Linda Rachske also mentions trying to get away from looking at bids/ offers too much, but focusing more on a slightly longer trend.
Quote from GATrader:
.....................Again it is a moving target but the trend is clearly away from tick trading. In this month's SFO magazine, Linda Rachske also mentions trying to get away from looking at bids/ offers too much, but focusing more on a slightly longer trend.
couldnt agree with you more.