NYSE Specialist - Stay or Go - vote here

Should the specialist Stay or Go?

  • STAY - I earn $0-$100k (annually)

    Votes: 46 25.7%
  • GO - I earn $0-$100k

    Votes: 39 21.8%
  • STAY - I earn $100k-$300k

    Votes: 21 11.7%
  • Go - I earn $100k-$300k

    Votes: 12 6.7%
  • STAY - I earn > $300k

    Votes: 16 8.9%
  • GO - I earn > $300k

    Votes: 12 6.7%
  • STAY - I lose money trading and need someone to blame

    Votes: 15 8.4%
  • Go - I lose money trading but will be profitable when he goes

    Votes: 18 10.1%

  • Total voters
    179
Where there are markets, there are crooks. Those people were all punished when found out.

I suggest you study the Chicago MERC, the Chicago BOT, the Chicago Options Exchange or any other major Exchange for some big scams.

If you believe that electronic markets won't bring in a new kind of crook and scheme, you are sadly mistaken.

nitro
Quote from jimrockford:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2005Apr12.html

Fifteen NYSE Traders Indicted
Investors Were Cheated, U.S. Says

By Carrie Johnson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 13, 2005; Page A01

Fifteen current and former traders at the New York Stock Exchange were criminally charged yesterday with cheating investors out of the best prices for their stock trades in what could be unparalleled abuse of their position at the world's largest and most prestigious stock market.

The exchange also faces disciplinary action for failing to adequately police its sprawling floor, where 1,366 traders handle an average of 1.6 billion shares a day. The traders are accused of getting in between orders to buy and sell, taking for themselves the best prices and depriving investors who ordered the trades of at least $32.5 million.


"These defendants broke the rules repeatedly, they cheated the markets, and they cheated the investors who relied upon them," said Manhattan U.S. Attorney David N. Kelley.

The indictments are the result of a two-year investigation into one of the widest-ranging manipulations ever of trading at the exchange, known as the Big Board, and they follow a series of ethical breaches in recent years that have tarnished the exchange's image as the most transparent and fair market in the world.

The stocks at issue in the improper trading include some of the nation's biggest companies, including Bank One Corp., Eli Lilly and Co., Hewlett-Packard Co., Merrill Lynch & Co., Pfizer Inc., Time Warner Inc. and the Walt Disney Co., according to court papers.

The charges come at a time when investor confidence already has been eroded by years of accounting scandals and revelations of illegal mutual fund trading. The abuses operated within the heart of a system that was designed to protect the interests of investors and to ensure they receive the best price for their trades.

At the same time the indictments were announced, the Securities and Exchange Commission filed separate civil charges against the 15 traders and five others. The traders "showed a disregard for their legal duty that was both profound and at times, profane," said Mark K. Schonfeld, director of the SEC's Northeast regional office.

In some cases, these traders, known as specialists, made statements explicitly denigrating investor orders placed through the exchange's electronic trading system, known as the designated order turnaround system, or DOT. Unnamed specialists said, "Screw the DOTs," according to an SEC news release.

Most purchases and sales of securities on the NYSE go through a system in which specialists are assigned to monitor particular stocks. They are obliged to match customer orders with each other whenever possible and ensure that the trading system works smoothly to find the best prices for buyers and sellers, experts said. Trades in the stocks may be made only through the specialists, which is why their role is so critical.

Traders were accused yesterday of buying or selling stock for their own accounts at prices that were better than those they gave to existing public orders. That practice is known as "trading ahead," regulators said.

Fifteen NYSE Traders Indicted

The specialists also were accused of using a trick in which they bought a customer "sell" order and then sold at a higher price into an opposite "buy" order from another customer, pocketing the difference. Such moves helped the traders lock in guaranteed profit at the expense of their customers.

The fraudulent practices enriched the specialist firms and resulted in higher salaries and bonuses for people who took part in the manipulation, U.S. Attorney Kelley said.

The SEC settled civil charges against the NYSE for failing to police and discipline the errant specialists. The exchange, which did not admit or deny wrongdoing, agreed to spend $20 million to beef up regulatory audits by hiring an independent reviewer. The exchange also said it would start an 18-month pilot program to provide video and audio surveillance of activity related to at least 20 stocks on the trading floor.

The SEC criticized the exchange's monitoring system, saying it was set up to uncover "only the most egregious instances of trading violations."

Richard G. Ketchum, the exchange's chief regulatory officer, said the NYSE has strengthened its enforcement unit and installed new technology to prevent improper trading since the investigation began in 2003. The regulatory unit now reports directly to the board of directors, rather than the NYSE chief executive, to help insulate it from pressure from traders and member firms.

"Specialist firms have changed, as have we," Ketchum said in a news release.

"It's highly unusual and somewhat shocking to see criminal activity on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange," said Jacob H. Zamansky, a securities lawyer who represents individuals suing Wall Street firms. "It also highlights that the NYSE seems incapable of supervising [traders]. It's a big setback for investor confidence."

U.S. Attorney Kelley pointed out that 14 of the people indicted yesterday at some point served as supervisors or managers at their respective firms -- Fleet Specialist Inc., now Banc of America Specialist Inc.; Bear Wagner Specialists LLC; LaBranche & Co.; Spear, Leeds & Kellogg Specialists LLC; and Van der Moolen Specialists USA. Most of the defendants, except for one authorities say is at large in the Netherlands, surrendered yesterday morning and were scheduled to appear in court for arraignments.

These firms and two others, SIG Specialists Inc. and Performance Specialist Group LLC , agreed to pay $247 million to settle related civil charges last year.

Indicted were David A. Finnerty, Donald R. Foley II, Scott G. Hunt and Thomas J. Murphy Jr. of Fleet; Frank A. Delaney IV and Kevin M. Fee of Bear Wagner; Freddy DeBoer of LaBranche; Robert A. Johnson Jr. at Spear, Leeds; and Patrick J. McGagh Jr., Joseph Bongiorno, Michael J. Hayward, Richard P. Volpe, Michael F. Stern, Gerard T. Hayes and Robert A. Scavone of Van der Moolen.

A defense lawyer for Finnerty, Frederick P. Hafetz, said that his client pleaded not guilty and that Finnerty "did nothing wrong." Other defense lawyers did not return calls or could not be reached for comment.

Columbia University law professor John C. Coffee Jr. said the criminal charges against specialists based on fundamental trading practices are unprecedented -- and a direct result of increased scrutiny by law enforcement authorities across the financial services industry.

"What prosecutors are recognizing is that across the financial field, the one weapon that seems to work, frightening as it is, is the criminal sanction," Coffee said.

The NYSE previously settled civil charges related to inadequate policing of independent floor brokers in 1999. Eight brokers connected to Oakford Corp. faced criminal charges for setting up secret accounts using phony documentation and illegally profiting from them in the late 1990s.

The investigation by federal prosecutors continues, according to spokeswoman Megan L. Gaffney.

Securities regulators also continue to probe the actions of individuals "who may have fallen down on the job and contributed to the failure that resulted in the case we bring today," SEC enforcement chief Stephen M. Cutler said.
 
If you can write software, then you can route anywhere you want without any delay. The problem with IB, and one of the reasons I don't like them, is they charged you to direct your route non-SMART through the API.

IB simply wants you to use SMART because they promise you the NBBO or better if they can fill it internally. That is good for you, and good for them because they are arbing you. But few people even realize that IB in this case is playing a similar role to the spec.

SOMEONE ALWAYS WANTS TO ARB YOU!

nitro
Quote from jimrockford:

Nitro, this is obvious, but it is not adequate. The purpose of a SMART router is to make routing decisions automatically and accurately, at a much higher speed and accuracy than a person. Direct-routing is an alternative, but it is not an adequate substitute for a fully-functioning SMART-router. I'm not aware of any SMART-router as good as IB's, but I think it would be better if it were designed to help IB customers take full advantage of NYSE electronic liquidity, while totally avoiding specialist order-handling. IB agreed with me enough to implement the feature I suggested, but did not agree with me enough to make it actually work. By the way, I think IB is the best, so don't anybody take my suggestion for improvement as bashing IB.
 
Quote from nitro:

Where there are markets, there are crooks. Those people were all punished when found out.

No, nitro, apparently you need to re-read the article. The article is not about isolated cases of individual traders who were punished. The article is about the criminal corruption of the entire system of NYSE trading, including the exchange officials who are supposed to police it. The cops are on the mafia's payroll, don't you get it? The NYSE is rotten to its core.
 
Quote from nitro:

IB simply wants you to use SMART because they promise you the NBBO or better if they can fill it internally. That is good for you, and good for them because they are arbing you. But few people even realize that IB in this case is playing a similar role to the spec.

nitro

Nitro,

IB does internalize orders under certain conditions, but it does not play any role similar to the specialist. IB follows certain procedures which are completely different from the procedures governing the specialist, it actually follows those procedures instead of using them as a smokescreen to conceal rampant violations of its own rules and of the criminal code, it uses honest people instead of criminals, and it uses modern technology truthfully intended to achieve immediate automatic execution, at the best possible price, without any delay or manual intervention whatsoever.

I can think of one or two ways their internalization procedure could be improved, but I think it is just completely off-base to suggest that IB does anything remotely related to what specialists do.
 
Quote from nitro:

Where there are markets, there are crooks. Those people were all punished when found out.

I suggest you study the Chicago MERC, the Chicago BOT, the Chicago Options Exchange or any other major Exchange for some big scams.

If you believe that electronic markets won't bring in a new kind of crook and scheme, you are sadly mistaken.

nitro

ROTFLYAO PIYP if you want JIMHO

I have this quazy gay feeling that this has nothing to do with the spec, but everything to do with foreign order routing. An e.g. would be Nigerian oil trades on Nymex linked to forex on globex2. While this e.g. may not involve a spec, other similar or parallel situations might.
 
Are any listed traders here excited about the new hybrid system? I for one think that nyse stocks will still trend like they do now. The Liquidity Refreshment Points should help from prices spiking all over like they can on nasdaq. All long as the liquidity is there and the stocks move we should be okay...


-Guru
 
Quote from nitro:

If you believe that electronic markets won't bring in a new kind of crook and scheme, you are sadly mistaken.

nitro

Markets will never be crime-free, but the reason we must eliminate the specialist system is that crime and fraud are inherent in its mechanism of executing orders. People can still abuse markets like GLOBEX or Nasdaq, but they can't do it by tampering with the mechanism of execution itself. This greatly limits the scope, potential, and range of opportunities for criminality, as compared to the NYSE.
 
Quote from jimrockford:

No, nitro, apparently you need to re-read the article. The article is not about isolated cases of individual traders who were punished. The article is about the criminal corruption of the entire system of NYSE trading, including the exchange officials who are supposed to police it. The cops are on the mafia's payroll, don't you get it? The NYSE is rotten to its core.
I read the article. The NYSE is on the mafia's payroll? Well, that is bad!!! But you know what? IT DOESN"T AFFECT MY TRADING THE NYSE PROFITABILITY ONE BIT!!!

Further, the NYSE is not the only exchange that has that problem. Where there is money, there is mafioso.

nitro
 
Quote from jimrockford:

Markets will never be crime-free, but the reason we must eliminate the specialist system is that crime and fraud are inherent in its mechanism of executing orders. People can still abuse markets like GLOBEX or Nasdaq, but they can't do it by tampering with the mechanism of execution itself. This greatly limits the scope, potential, and range of opportunities for criminality, as compared to the NYSE.
You say that as soem sort of philosophy - as if it is revelation. READ MY LIPS - Get rid of specs just shuffles around who is doing the "corruption." Change it to anything you want, it won't make one hill bean of a difference to me!

My point is that your premise is flawed. I bid for a stock, I get filled or I don't. If I get filled I want it there. If I don't get filled I did not lose money, only opportunity - maybe. If I try to cancel my order and the market moves against me and I get filled, I wanted it there.

nitro
 
Mr. Rockford,

How could we be certain that the fully electronic trading platform has zero corruption or better? I have no preference between the two systems, my concern is about the possibility of manipulation in the electronic system and it will be harder for the SEC to investigate if a corruption has been occurred while it's easier to investigate under the specialist system.

Quote from jimrockford:

The NYSE is rotten to its core.
 
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