NYSE hybrid update

GATrader · Apr 27, 2006

I am not in any way trying to sound pompous. I've been struggling as a trader in any style let alone the NYSE trading. I am trying to solicit comments on how things have changed since I really need to get a better handle on this.

I am wise enough and humble enough to recognize that if 10 traders in a room w/ roughly the same style as I are having a hard time with a new market structure, I probably won't be the exception to the rule and as such need to 1) reduce size 2. leave .

Well I've done 1)

thecalip · Apr 27, 2006

The fill is terrible. I placed a protected stop at 49, and I didn't get filled until 47.83, wtf. I looked at the 1 min chart, and from 9:30 to 10, there was simply no volume, how could that be? Only 1 explaination, the specialist were holding on the order not releasing it. The stock is not very liquid, but it has about 400k shares a day and the slipperage shouldn't be this bad. It's $1.5/shares.

I will not trade another NYSE stock anymore.

Quote from bdon:

I would agree that my fills are horrible lately, I also read in the article that the fill rate is quicker, but I seem to wait forever on market orders lately.

GAtrader your style of trading may not have been affected but I know plenty of folks styles of trading have been adversly impacted. Don't belittle that fact with your superiority complex.

The market always changes and we all need to be able to adapt, but this change seems to have brought the specialist more power instead of taking it away, maybe not in all stocks, but certainly in ones trading under 2 million shares a day.

Do you think if I emailed those guys in the article my concerns they would reply?

Dogballoon · Apr 27, 2006

Quote from GATrader:

I am not in any way trying to sound pompous. I've been struggling as a trader in any style let alone the NYSE trading. I am trying to solicit comments on how things have changed since I really need to get a better handle on this.

I am wise enough and humble enough to recognize that if 10 traders in a room w/ roughly the same style as I are having a hard time with a new market structure, I probably won't be the exception to the rule and as such need to 1) reduce size 2. leave .

Well I've done 1)

Well said. I honestly am not seeing volatility changes. Those who scalp for dimes might have more functionality problems with market orders and limit price improvement, but I usually try to catch longer intraday moves so order handling isn't as crucial to my bottom line. As long as the specialist has less discretion for gapping me down twenty cents on a sell and then immediately bringing it back before moving higher. Few things make me want to punch a toddler more than that.

I'm mostly curious about Phase III:

<i>The main features of this phase will include enhanced automatic execution, functionality by removing the 1,099 share limit and 30-second refresh limit from Direct+; and implementation of the broker discretionary order (to be discussed further in our next e-mail communication).</i>

Sounds like a lot more spikes and possible manipulation by mooks.

JMartinez · Apr 27, 2006

Who's the broker? Depending on your broker if that order went to a market maker firm(wholesalers) such as Knight, Etrade, Leh, ATD it might explain the rapeage. IB, Etrade, Fid, Ameritrade, TD, are a few brokers that use those type of places. But if you have a DOT line then blame the specialist. If brut or Archi routed then they route like nasdaq

and again explains the pillage.

Quote from thecalip:

The fill is terrible. I placed a protected stop at 49, and I didn't get filled until 47.83, wtf. I looked at the 1 min chart, and from 9:30 to 10, there was simply no volume, how could that be? Only 1 explaination, the specialist were holding on the order not releasing it. The stock is not very liquid, but it has about 400k shares a day and the slipperage shouldn't be this bad. It's $1.5/shares.

I will not trade another NYSE stock anymore.

RedManPlus · Apr 27, 2006

14:55 and 121 Listed trades today via IB SMART.

110 printed on NYSE...
8 printed SMART...
3 printed CAES.

All stocks volume < 200K per day.

I honestly have not noticed ANY difference in the stocks that I trade.
Yesterday... had highest volume day of year.

But you guys have me worried.
My job is to worry.

rm+

bdon · Apr 27, 2006

I will say that I have also seen a large increase in size orders being placed 10 to 20 cents through the bid or offer on a regular basis.

It almost like a vicious cycle, specialists are filling worse, so the orders getting placed in a wider range and contribute to the specialist chopping up and down even more.

I am terrified of people being able to NX more than 1000 shares. Every mook and mom will think they can move the stock in their favor with every click.

Dogballoon · Apr 27, 2006

Quote from bdon:

It almost like a vicious cycle, specialists are filling worse, so the orders getting placed in a wider range and contribute to the specialist chopping up and down even more.

Hm. I'll have to watch out and see if there's some of that going on in my stocks.

Honestly, right now I don't see much of a problem with the transition. I wish some more people could mention their thoughts.

bdon · Apr 27, 2006

Quote from Dogballoon:

Hm. I'll have to watch out and see if there's some of that going on in my stocks.

Honestly, right now I don't see much of a problem with the transition. I wish some more people could mention their thoughts.

I am usually trade in stocks that have 5 million or less in volume a day and are in the news or have earnings. Today I was in FIC, BLL, ZMH and HOT most of the day.