NYSE Front-Running needs to be addressed
- Thread starter hayman
- Start date
Hey NBBO !
It hasn't been pretty, but I've been sitting on the sidelines a lot the last 3 weeks, which translates to poor earnings.
I've also been dabbling with eminis the last week or so. Totally different market from what you/I are used to.
Market in a major corrective state now. I don't think we've seen the end yet. The economy still sucks, and the world is in its usual state of turmoil.
Hang in there my friend !!!!
It hasn't been pretty, but I've been sitting on the sidelines a lot the last 3 weeks, which translates to poor earnings.
I've also been dabbling with eminis the last week or so. Totally different market from what you/I are used to.
Market in a major corrective state now. I don't think we've seen the end yet. The economy still sucks, and the world is in its usual state of turmoil.
Hang in there my friend !!!!
Right on, emini's eh? let me know how that goes!
Yeah, we've only had about 25% of our usual orders out there over the last 5-6 week, but extra nasty over the last 3.
Profit drop by about 65% here, not pretty.
Can't wait for no limit ,auto NX when things get bad. Watch those risk metrix when tradin' that other stuff!
DOWN WITH THE SPECIALISTS & THEIR PISS ANT PENNYING.....CAUSE THEY CAN'T OUT-TRADE US ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD!
Yeah, we've only had about 25% of our usual orders out there over the last 5-6 week, but extra nasty over the last 3.
Profit drop by about 65% here, not pretty.
Can't wait for no limit ,auto NX when things get bad. Watch those risk metrix when tradin' that other stuff!
DOWN WITH THE SPECIALISTS & THEIR PISS ANT PENNYING.....CAUSE THEY CAN'T OUT-TRADE US ON A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD!
Yeah, my profits way down too. The spreads are too damn tight, and since we can't short most of these puppies, it has been difficult. Hey, can you call my wife and let her know it's not only me ????? 
I'm looking at TA and eminis, and doing mostly paper trading at this point. My initial impressions are:
1) fast-moving market; have to adhere to stops rigidly
2) No Specialist B.S. - fills are as one would expect/hope
3) No worry about shorting on a downtick
4) Commissions/leverage are great.
The BIG downside is you really can't take advantage of supply/demand imbalance, since the futures represent THE market. With stocks, you have imbalances after the major indices move, and that's what we take advantage of. Yet, there is still something elegant about trading the eminis. Definitely need to adhere to rigid, lightning-quick moves. The jury is still out, in regard to me doing the eminis with any regularity.
Let's hope the Limit rules changes, as you suggest. Specialists can't match us, if they don't have that superior advantage.
Hang in there !!!
I'm looking at TA and eminis, and doing mostly paper trading at this point. My initial impressions are:
1) fast-moving market; have to adhere to stops rigidly
2) No Specialist B.S. - fills are as one would expect/hope
3) No worry about shorting on a downtick
4) Commissions/leverage are great.
The BIG downside is you really can't take advantage of supply/demand imbalance, since the futures represent THE market. With stocks, you have imbalances after the major indices move, and that's what we take advantage of. Yet, there is still something elegant about trading the eminis. Definitely need to adhere to rigid, lightning-quick moves. The jury is still out, in regard to me doing the eminis with any regularity.
Let's hope the Limit rules changes, as you suggest. Specialists can't match us, if they don't have that superior advantage.
Hang in there !!!
Not to re-hash....but don't you think that the real pennying is being done by the automated programs? As I mentioned before, I sat for an hour watching this happen...whenever the Specialist would adjust a market (rare, usually kept to real "booked" orders), he would get pennied by 4 or 5 automated programs. It was a bit odd to see this in action.
I did see something that you will agree with, and it looks bad from the outside...and that is having the brokers holding higher limits in the crowd...waiting for offers (bids) to come in and taking shares from the NBBO (not you, LOL)...but I didn't really see the Specialist himself doing it. ...this reminds me of MM action on the Naz.
Bigger size on NX is exactly what the Specialist wants...they can then take full advantage of the bid offer spread by simply "matching" their own orders with the NX. I personally think that the NX is a step backwards for traders...not bad for specialists and fund managers.
We'll have to see it all sort out.... I'm really sorry that you guys are having trouble...I hope it turns around for you.
All the best...
Don
Yea, been seeing it as of about a month or so ago.......brut/arca/inca are now matching the NY "leaders"(3-5 hundred share lots that specs put infront of "real" orders.........just a low share way (and legitimate) of "pennying" the "real" orders. They can be a pain in the ass, but you can also bait them down & execute against all three or four (if you NX)and que up....but all must be simultaneous.
Agreed, Don, that this isn't ALL the spec.......but he still screws everyone x3 these days.......unreal.......negative obligation must have been removed from the handbook. If they want to compete...then post the f*ckin' sh*t -JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HAS TOO. I know you work off the spec.---but thats a weak way to work. They hold all the keys to all the exits....but aren't really that smart-- I assure you.
Agreed, Don, that this isn't ALL the spec.......but he still screws everyone x3 these days.......unreal.......negative obligation must have been removed from the handbook. If they want to compete...then post the f*ckin' sh*t -JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HAS TOO. I know you work off the spec.---but thats a weak way to work. They hold all the keys to all the exits....but aren't really that smart-- I assure you.
well, when a "ghost" order gets printed right in front of me i will guess it's the specialist versus an auto-program. i don't really mind the "auto's"...i feel i can beat them 80% of the time if the specialist don't interfere. but most of the time the specialist can't keep up with the "auto's" and he shut's off the nx so he can work his orders. some people don't like the nx for their style of trading...but mine is very dependent upon it. i just wish the specialist weren't so slow.
Even through our own FIX protocol, we can dynamically place orders based on movements of NBBO, another stock, or even with the fluctuations in an index. Heck, we have a "scalper" program that will auto update based on Bid/Offer variables and even allow for auto update based on time frames/price.
Even our older Active-X spreadsheets will send orders in the second a price changes, or a bid/offer changes.
Don