Mr.NBBO...i was being sarcastic, Haymen starts a complaining thread every other month on this same subject. I told him before that every time I saw the p/l sheets for the posts my friends worked they NEVER lost money on the thinner stocks. So he needs to get used to it or find something else to trade. I'm not saying the pennying is right or the specialists don't hold the cards, just that this is the way it is and until it changes deal with it. Thank you for your comment on my IQ. Some day with a little luck maybe I can change my handle to shaq49 so I can be on the same level as you, because without a doubt your smarter than me.
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NYSE Front-Running needs to be addressed
- Thread starter hayman
- Start date
Mr.NBBO...i was being sarcastic, Haymen starts a complaining thread every other month on this same subject. I told him before that every time I saw the p/l sheets for the posts my friends worked they NEVER lost money on the thinner stocks. So he needs to get used to it or find something else to trade. I'm not saying the pennying is right or the specialists don't hold the cards, just that this is the way it is and until it changes deal with it. Thank you for your comment on my IQ. Some day with a little luck maybe I can change my handle to shaq49 so I can be on the same level as you, because without a doubt your smarter than me.
This was addressed in another forum but as I expressed there and will reitterate here there is no $$ for anyone who thinks they will benefit in any way from the settlement reached w/ the Specialist announced today:
NYSE Investors Face Long Wait
By SUSANNE CRAIG and KATE KELLY
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Now that the New York Stock Exchange's five largest floor-trading firms have agreed to pay a total of $240 million to settle charges that they stepped ahead of customer orders, aggrieved investors want to know how much they will get back, and when.
The answers: not very much -- and not soon.
The elite trading firms, known as specialist firms, have tentatively agreed in a settlement with the Securities and Exchange Commission and the NYSE to pay the stiffest-ever regulatory fine for allegations of abusive trading at the Big Board. The five specialists collectively will pay about $155 million in disgorgement of ill-gotten gains to investors and $85 million in fines, according to people familiar with the matter. The previous record fine for alleged specialist misbehavior on the Big Board was just $270,000.
NYSE Investors Face Long Wait
By SUSANNE CRAIG and KATE KELLY
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
Now that the New York Stock Exchange's five largest floor-trading firms have agreed to pay a total of $240 million to settle charges that they stepped ahead of customer orders, aggrieved investors want to know how much they will get back, and when.
The answers: not very much -- and not soon.
The elite trading firms, known as specialist firms, have tentatively agreed in a settlement with the Securities and Exchange Commission and the NYSE to pay the stiffest-ever regulatory fine for allegations of abusive trading at the Big Board. The five specialists collectively will pay about $155 million in disgorgement of ill-gotten gains to investors and $85 million in fines, according to people familiar with the matter. The previous record fine for alleged specialist misbehavior on the Big Board was just $270,000.
I spent a couple of hours with an excellent Specialist on the trading floor this morning. I "re-learned" many of the rules and how they have been modified to provide better markets, etc. I saw how others, not the Specialists, "front run" or "Penny" more often than others....and took some notes.
I'm going to write an article, with Q &A to a couple of Specialists...and would like to include some questions from you guys.....
Send me PM or email with legitimate questions (please, I will ask the "tough" questions, like I did today, but no "bashing" please)...
I asked about pennying, front running, market orders, executions, etc. ...and was glad to find out that what I have been teaching, for the most part, is still the same...rule and execution wise.
I found out about recent changes that make it even better for the order flow to not be interupted by 'Principal" activity (the Specialist), and how they handle "Agency" orders a bit differently.
Anyway, I will do my best to help educate traders and the public alike about how things really work...somethings may be better than you all thought, some may be worse (or at least interpreted that way)....so send my good questions, and I'll do my best.
I hope to have this written by the end of February.
Don (I would like to see another thread started if necessary, but I will accept PM's now).
I'm going to write an article, with Q &A to a couple of Specialists...and would like to include some questions from you guys.....
Send me PM or email with legitimate questions (please, I will ask the "tough" questions, like I did today, but no "bashing" please)...
I asked about pennying, front running, market orders, executions, etc. ...and was glad to find out that what I have been teaching, for the most part, is still the same...rule and execution wise.
I found out about recent changes that make it even better for the order flow to not be interupted by 'Principal" activity (the Specialist), and how they handle "Agency" orders a bit differently.
Anyway, I will do my best to help educate traders and the public alike about how things really work...somethings may be better than you all thought, some may be worse (or at least interpreted that way)....so send my good questions, and I'll do my best.
I hope to have this written by the end of February.
Don (I would like to see another thread started if necessary, but I will accept PM's now).
So you steal tens of millions of dollars and then get fined,is their any other sphere of life where you would not get sent to prison for the same thing....unbelievable.
Quote from I Missed Boat:
With all due respect, this is hardly a comprehensive or scientific study. The studies that do exist show that people get better prices on the NYSE, and people know that spreads are typically smaller on the NYSE.
I know it's not scientific, but it's enough to show me their claim of being more "fair and orderly" was BS.
Of course if I were smart, I'd join Don et al and profit. There is edge there. Maybe this thread should be about accepting the realities and adjusting yourself to the market.
Quote from Don Bright:
I spent a couple of hours with an excellent Specialist on the trading floor this morning. I "re-learned" many of the rules and how they have been modified to provide better markets, etc. I saw how others, not the Specialists, "front run" or "Penny" more often than others....and took some notes.
I'm going to write an article, with Q &A to a couple of Specialists...and would like to include some questions from you guys.....
Send me PM or email with legitimate questions (please, I will ask the "tough" questions, like I did today, but no "bashing" please)...
I asked about pennying, front running, market orders, executions, etc. ...and was glad to find out that what I have been teaching, for the most part, is still the same...rule and execution wise.
I found out about recent changes that make it even better for the order flow to not be interupted by 'Principal" activity (the Specialist), and how they handle "Agency" orders a bit differently.
Anyway, I will do my best to help educate traders and the public alike about how things really work...somethings may be better than you all thought, some may be worse (or at least interpreted that way)....so send my good questions, and I'll do my best.
I hope to have this written by the end of February.
Don (I would like to see another thread started if necessary, but I will accept PM's now).
Don,
Seriously, I would just present them with this thread, minus the nonsense and personal attack stuff. I would love to hear how they defend themselves......
Regards,
Doug
Quote from hayman:
Don,
Seriously, I would just present them with this thread, minus the nonsense and personal attack stuff. I would love to hear how they defend themselves......
Regards,
Doug
The Specialist that I spent an hour with, during trading hours, was very open and honest with his answers. He showed me exactly how "pennying" transpires...and "whoda thought" it was him getting pennied by several outside firms all at once. I'm keeping detailed notes of today's experiences, and will still be glad to continue to ask specific questions.
This gentleman agreed that, as in any large organization, a few "bad apples" will spoil the good that is done. He showed me some new safeguards that protect the rules that are already in place. Several other traders were quick to point out the COCO debacle as an offsetting argument...but I said that by "pointing to worse behavior does not justify bad behavior"...and then went on to see more of these safeguards.
Don
Quote from Don Bright:
The Specialist that I spent an hour with, during trading hours, was very open and honest with his answers. He showed me exactly how "pennying" transpires...and "whoda thought" it was him getting pennied by several outside firms all at once.
Don, I hope you had your violin handy, and consoled this poor soul. How on earth are the Specialists supposed to cope with behavior like this ?????
Quote from Don Bright:
The Specialist that I spent an hour with, during trading hours, was very open and honest with his answers. He showed me exactly how "pennying" transpires...and "whoda thought" it was him getting pennied by several outside firms all at once. I'm keeping detailed notes of today's experiences, and will still be glad to continue to ask specific questions.
This gentleman agreed that, as in any large organization, a few "bad apples" will spoil the good that is done. He showed me some new safeguards that protect the rules that are already in place. Several other traders were quick to point out the COCO debacle as an offsetting argument...but I said that by "pointing to worse behavior does not justify bad behavior"...and then went on to see more of these safeguards.
Don
Wasn't there another technical debacle today on the NAS?