NYSE DOT vs (ArcaX, Inet)
- Thread starter danjos
- Start date
OK, quick review Danjos. I was unable to read the first two pages of your fax (came through black), but I can see the Esignal Time and Sales. It appears to me that 4 trades totalling 2900 shares traded at 27.42 (11:52:44) on the NYSE DOT. 4 seconds later 100 shares traded at 27.45, 2 more seconds and 500 shares traded at 27.45. And then 4 and half minutes later NYSE trades at $28.00. What you saw at 11:54 (approx) were several trades on the 3rd market (they aren't liable for posted times, since they are often "added in"). If your trades were 27.42 at 11:52, then you weren't necessarily entitled to the $28.00 price (since the NYSE trades were more than 2 minutes away).
This is not the answer you wanted to hear, but it is how I see it from your information. Your quote machine probably picks up the 3rd market orders (on the dedicated tape), which makes it appear as though your trades were executed at the same time as the $28.00 trades, not the case this time).
20 seconds before your trade, 10,700 shares tradedat $27.40 as well.
Like I said, I can't see your sheets, but if the time stamp is close to 11:52:44 (within 30 seconds either side) then you were part of those orders traded at that time.
If I'm wrong about your time stamps from the Assent sheets, then let me know.
Don
This is not the answer you wanted to hear, but it is how I see it from your information. Your quote machine probably picks up the 3rd market orders (on the dedicated tape), which makes it appear as though your trades were executed at the same time as the $28.00 trades, not the case this time).
20 seconds before your trade, 10,700 shares tradedat $27.40 as well.
Like I said, I can't see your sheets, but if the time stamp is close to 11:52:44 (within 30 seconds either side) then you were part of those orders traded at that time.
If I'm wrong about your time stamps from the Assent sheets, then let me know.
Don
Quote from Don Bright:
OK, quick review Danjos. I was unable to read the first two pages of your fax (came through black), but I can see the Esignal Time and Sales. It appears to me that 4 trades totalling 2900 shares traded at 27.42 (11:52:44) on the NYSE DOT. 4 seconds later 100 shares traded at 27.45, 2 more seconds and 500 shares traded at 27.45.
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The time stamp of my order is the following
1st order 11:52:53
2nd order 11:52:57
3rd order 11:53:07
4th order 11:53:23
all 4 orders got filled at 11:53:55 at 27.42 (later on corrected to 27.45)
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And then 4 and half minutes later NYSE trades at $28.00. What you saw at 11:54 (approx) were several trades on the 3rd market (they aren't liable for posted times, since they are often "added in"). If your trades were 27.42 at 11:52, then you weren't necessarily entitled to the $28.00 price (since the NYSE trades were more than 2 minutes away).
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The thing that puzzled me is that there was no executions happening on the NYSE till 4 minutes later as (11:57:36). Can the specialist just give me fills without showing them on the tape?
I saw prints at 11:52:47 for 500 shares at 27.45 before the next print at 28. My first order (11:52:53) was sent after this.
Still curious to find out what happens?
Thanks for the time and attention DOn
Hope other people can learn fr this also> Next time something happens, what is proper the procedures to file complaints?
Put the time and sales up with quotes too.
Quote from danjos:
Quote from Don Bright:
OK, quick review Danjos. I was unable to read the first two pages of your fax (came through black), but I can see the Esignal Time and Sales. It appears to me that 4 trades totalling 2900 shares traded at 27.42 (11:52:44) on the NYSE DOT. 4 seconds later 100 shares traded at 27.45, 2 more seconds and 500 shares traded at 27.45.
----------------------------------------
The time stamp of my order is the following
1st order 11:52:53
2nd order 11:52:57
3rd order 11:53:07
4th order 11:53:23
all 4 orders got filled at 11:53:55 at 27.42 (later on corrected to 27.45)
-----------------------------------------
And then 4 and half minutes later NYSE trades at $28.00. What you saw at 11:54 (approx) were several trades on the 3rd market (they aren't liable for posted times, since they are often "added in"). If your trades were 27.42 at 11:52, then you weren't necessarily entitled to the $28.00 price (since the NYSE trades were more than 2 minutes away).
----------------------------------------------
The thing that puzzled me is that there was no executions happening on the NYSE till 4 minutes later as (11:57:36). Can the specialist just give me fills without showing them on the tape?
I saw prints at 11:52:47 for 500 shares at 27.45 before the next print at 28. My first order (11:52:53) was sent after this.
Still curious to find out what happens?
Thanks for the time and attention DOn
Hope other people can learn fr this also> Next time something happens, what is proper the procedures to file complaints?
Quote from cuz:
I never said it had to do with ASSENT. I was referring to the support desk that he claims was unhelpful.
Did you and Alanm actually read my post? It doesn't appear so.
Yes, I did read it, and read it again just now. There was nothing in your response that specified just why you thought there was a problem with Assent, so it was assumed to be the current topic, which was that the guy got a lousy fill. You used CAPS, exclamation marks, and characterized the "bashing" of Assent in another thread as being justified.
Nothing here seems to warrant such extreme characterization. The guy on the desk correctly said that the market order could be filled at the bid, and got an adjustment accordingly. This may or may not be justified - as JMartinez suggests, we need to see what/where the quotes were in relation to the prints.
I'll also say that we have the benefit of multiple highly experienced people looking at the evidence and discussing it, which is quite a different situation than a front-line trade support guy with a trader on the phone and a limited amount of time to deal with him.
I never said it had to do with ASSENT. I was referring to the support desk that he claims was unhelpful.
Did you and Alanm actually read my post? It doesn't appear so.
Yes, I did read it, and read it again just now. There was nothing in your response that specified just why you thought there was a problem with Assent, so it was assumed to be the current topic, which was that the guy got a lousy fill. You used CAPS, exclamation marks, and characterized the "bashing" of Assent in another thread as being justified.
Nothing here seems to warrant such extreme characterization. The guy on the desk correctly said that the market order could be filled at the bid, and got an adjustment accordingly. This may or may not be justified - as JMartinez suggests, we need to see what/where the quotes were in relation to the prints.
I'll also say that we have the benefit of multiple highly experienced people looking at the evidence and discussing it, which is quite a different situation than a front-line trade support guy with a trader on the phone and a limited amount of time to deal with him.
I too was in that stock at the same time. I understand how you can be annoyed but i think you messed up.We all hate the specialist but this time i was loving the specialist. While you were selling at market around this time I was buying and I was getting filled at 42 and 45. I already had an established position but i did get 300 shares at 45 at 11:52:55.
Hers's my advice. First off you had a nice Bid 27.30 why rush a market order to sell. Secondly as everyone else said put a limit order in. I had put a 1000 sell limit at 80 just to see what would happen. When i tried to cancel the specialist held the order. Wouldn't cancel it. So i though to myself he needs the stock, so I held the other 1500 shares. I got filled in the 28 gap print. THEN i sent a 500 share market order, well guess what? I got filled at 28.14!!! I dumped the rest and on ARCA at 28.35!!
Look alot of times i get screwed when the specialist spreads. This time I got lucky. But you have to remember if the specialist is showing a 15,000 share buyer, then the buyer more than likely has at least double that if not more.
Hers's my advice. First off you had a nice Bid 27.30 why rush a market order to sell. Secondly as everyone else said put a limit order in. I had put a 1000 sell limit at 80 just to see what would happen. When i tried to cancel the specialist held the order. Wouldn't cancel it. So i though to myself he needs the stock, so I held the other 1500 shares. I got filled in the 28 gap print. THEN i sent a 500 share market order, well guess what? I got filled at 28.14!!! I dumped the rest and on ARCA at 28.35!!
Look alot of times i get screwed when the specialist spreads. This time I got lucky. But you have to remember if the specialist is showing a 15,000 share buyer, then the buyer more than likely has at least double that if not more.