NYMEX CRUDE: Issue of NON-BONA FIDE Bids & Offers

C

Chicago_CTA

Does anyone have any information on CME's policy regarding flashing NON BONA-FIDE Bids & Offers?


Anybody who has been trading NYMEX CRUDE OIL must have noticed some algos filling the bids or offers with size up to 1,000...yes, saw my first 1,000 bid at 99.__ today.

And it disappeared two seconds later.

Fortunately, I don't trade off DOM information so this doesn't affect me personally but I think it's bullshit and makes a mockery of price discovery. This is the type of shit that makes stocks horrible to trade...

This is the first time I've seen it on CL. Sorry I do not have video to post, but if you trade crude, especially today you would have seen it.

For the record, I have nothing against algorithms speed or techniques, but I DO TAKE ISSUE with NON-BONAFIDE BIDS AND OFFERS.



Thoughts?
 
I've seen it in the energy complex before; they cannot sustain that indefinitely because of the message-to-fill ratio policy. It should really only be a concern during off-hours or in thin markets. No biggee.
 
Quote from bone:

I've seen it in the energy complex before; they cannot sustain that indefinitely because of the message-to-fill ratio policy. It should really only be a concern during off-hours or in thin markets. No biggee.
More...

Funny you mention off hours, did you see Nat Gas tonight a 7:45 EST..... a high, then a drop .40 cents! over 2k lots got filled, got to be some damage
 
Quote from pwrtrdr:

Funny you mention off hours, did you see Nat Gas tonight a 7:45 EST..... a high, then a drop .40 cents! over 2k lots got filled, got to be some damage
More...

v5bsoy.png


I did not have the order book up (just spreads), but IMO that was a stupid fat finger that will stand. Tomorrow morning they could have gotten that done using the ICE Swaps or ClearPort as a block trade at one price. Easy.
 
Quote from Chicago_CTA:

Does anyone have any information on CME's policy regarding flashing NON BONA-FIDE Bids & Offers?


Anybody who has been trading NYMEX CRUDE OIL must have noticed some algos filling the bids or offers with size up to 1,000...yes, saw my first 1,000 bid at 99.__ today.

And it disappeared two seconds later.

Fortunately, I don't trade off DOM information so this doesn't affect me personally but I think it's bullshit and makes a mockery of price discovery. This is the type of shit that makes stocks horrible to trade...

This is the first time I've seen it on CL. Sorry I do not have video to post, but if you trade crude, especially today you would have seen it.

For the record, I have nothing against algorithms speed or techniques, but I DO TAKE ISSUE with NON-BONAFIDE BIDS AND OFFERS.



Thoughts?
More...

i'm pretty sure all bids and offers are considered bonafide if they are sitting out ther as limit orders. you could sell into him if you wanted, he just no longer thought it was a good deal when you finally wanted to sell them.

he'll eventually get swept through sometime, and that will be interesting to see where he'd try and lay those off
 
I'm sure if you're algo is quick enough you could sell into it I would think.

I can put a bid or offer on the book and cancel anytime I want so I don't see the difference.
 
Quote from bone:

v5bsoy.png


I did not have the order book up (just spreads), but IMO that was a stupid fat finger that will stand. Tomorrow morning they could have gotten that done using the ICE Swaps or ClearPort as a block trade at one price. Easy.
More...

It got weird intraday today , something is up, maybe fat finger like you say, but I saw some decent moves intraday that made me wonder, then I saw this...
 
I thought it was Thursday 10:30 am EST already when I saw that tonight. If you look back in the July contract there was a high in January it tagged, filled a gap, and someone unloaded. Doesn't surprise me price reversed from that level as I was watching that area but the withdrawl was pretty harsh. Nat gas is thin after hours. It doesn't take much to move it. Let's see what 10:30 holds tomorrow :)
 
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