NY gunman kills 13, commits suicide

Quote from gigsup:

Arm the public. You blow away a few of these assholes into hell and they might think twice.

Actually, if they're blown away they won't be doing much thinking.

Just kidding.

Anyway, I remember seeing on TV many years ago that there's a town somewhere in the U.S. where it's illegal not to carry a gun; crime rate zero.

It's hard to say how it would play out. There are so many desperados and crazies out there.. but they might be eliminated over time. Definitely the 'death by firearms' stats would soar for a while but in the long run the crime rate would probably drop.

In any case there's no way to deter a killer who wants to die.
 
Quote from IShopAtPublix:

Does not it strike you as odd that US has these incidents on a regular basis? Does it have, ahem, something to do with availability of guns?

School shootings, work shootings, etc. are just business as usual. "

These shooting sprees by hitherto law abiders might be less frequent if guns were unavailable through legal means but the great majority of gun-murders are committed by persons who acquired their guns illegally. The gun trade, like the drug trade, is made stronger and more profitable by legislation opposing it.

If the addict-mugger knows every Joe and Jane citizen is packing a (registered) handgun he might be more inclined to sign up for rehab.
 
Quote from Hansel H:

Actually, if they're blown away they won't be doing much thinking.

Just kidding.

Anyway, I remember seeing on TV many years ago that there's a town somewhere in the U.S. where it's illegal not to carry a gun; crime rate zero.

It's hard to say how it would play out. There are so many desperados and crazies out there.. but they might be eliminated over time. Definitely the 'death by firearms' stats would soar for a while but in the long run the crime rate would probably drop.

In any case there's no way to deter a killer who wants to die.


Very true. But perhaps it could lessen the bloodshed if people took action.
 
PrintBack to story .
NY gunman angry over poor English skills, job loss
By WILLIAM KATES, Associated Press Writer William Kates, Associated Press Writer
47 mins ago

BINGHAMTON, N.Y. – The man who police say killed 13 people in a shooting rampage at an immigrant community center was depressed and angry over losing his job and about his poor English skills, officials said Saturday.

Police Chief Joseph Zikuski told NBC's "Today" that people "degraded and disrespected" the gunman over his poor English. Mayor Matthew Ryan, speaking on ABC's "Good Morning America," said the man, believed to be 42-year-old Vietnamese immigrant Jiverly Voong, was angry about his language issues and his lack of employment.

On Friday, he barricaded the American Civic Association community center's back door with his car, walked in the front and started shooting with two handguns. Within minutes, a receptionist, 12 immigrants taking a citizenship class and the gunman were dead. Another receptionist, who played dead after she was shot in the abdomen, called 911 to get police to the scene within two minutes.

Zikuski said the injured receptionist stayed on the phone for 90 minutes, "feeding us information constantly," despite a serious wound in the abdomen.

"She's a hero in her own right," he said.

Four people were critically wounded in the Friday massacre, and 37 others made it out, including 26 who hid for hours in a basement boiler room while police tried to determine whether the gunman was still alive and whether he was holding any hostages, Zikuski said.

Investigators said they had yet to establish a motive for the shooting, which was at least the fifth deadly mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month.

The suspected killer carried ID with the name of 42-year-old Jiverly Voong, of nearby Johnson City, N.Y., but that was believed to be an alias, said a law enforcement official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The man was found dead in an office with a self-inflicted gunshot wound, a satchel containing ammunition slung around his neck, authorities said. Police found two handguns — a 9 mm and a .45-caliber — and a hunting knife.

A second law enforcement official, also speaking on condition of anonymity, said the handguns were registered to Jiverly Wong, another name the man used. Both officials were not authorized to speak publicly.

A woman who answered the phone at a listing for Henry D. Voong said she was Jiverly Voong's sister but would not give her name. She said her brother had been in the country for 28 years and had citizenship.

Zikuski told "Today" that the shooter had worked in Binghamton for Shop-Vac, which closed in November. The sister told the AP on Friday that her brother worked at a company where "they make the vacuums."

The mayor told ABC that the gunman "had lost a job recently and was somewhat angry."

"He had language issues, didn't speak English that well, and was really concerned about his employment situation," Ryan said.

Initial reports suggested Voong had recently been let go from IBM, which has roots in the region, but a person at IBM said there was no record of a Jiverly Voong ever working there. His father, Henry Voong, does work there.

The attack at the American Civic Association, which helps immigrants settle in this country, came just after 10 a.m. as people from all over the globe — Latin America, China, Kazakhstan, Vietnam, Africa — gathered for English and citizenship lessons in an effort to become a bigger part of their new home.

The gunman parked his car against the back door before barging through the front and opening fire, apparently without saying a word. He then entered a room just off the reception area and fired on a citizenship class while terrified people scrambled into a boiler room and a storage room.

Abdelhak Ettouri, a Moroccan immigrant who lives in nearby Johnson City, told the Binghamton Press & Sun-Bulletin he found the back door locked when he tried to flee, then ran to hide in the basement as he heard 12 to 14 shots: "Tak-tak-tak-tak."

Zhanar Tokhtabayeva, a 30-year-old from Kazakhstan, was in an English class when her teacher screamed for everyone to go to the storage room.

"I heard the shots, every shot. I heard no screams, just silence, shooting," Tokhtabayeva told the AP. "I heard shooting, very long time, and I was thinking, when will this stop? I was thinking that my life was finished."

Hoi Nguyen of Binghamton said his 36-year-old daughter Phuong Nguyen, who survived the massacre, was taking an English class in the basement when the gunfire started.

"She said it sounded like a firecracker and everyone in the class was startled," he said. "Then the teacher locked the door, called the police, then told everyone they couldn't leave the room."

Police arrived in minutes, heard no gunfire and waited for about an hour before entering the building to make sure it was safe for officers. They then spent two hours searching the building. They led a number of men out in plastic handcuffs while trying to sort out victims from the killer or killers.

The police chief said the suspected gunman "was no stranger" to the community center and may have gone there to take a class. He said he had no idea what the shooter's motive was.

On Friday evening, police searched Voong's house and carried out three computer hard drives, a brown canvas rifle case, a briefcase, a small suitcase and several paper bags.

Dr. Jeffrey King, speaking at the Catholic Charities office, said he was certain his mother, 72-year-old Roberta King, who taught English at the community center, was among the dead.

Authorities read a list of survivors and his mother's name wasn't on it, he said.

The shootings took place in a neighborhood of homes and small businesses in downtown Binghamton, a city of about 47,000 situated 140 miles northwest of New York City.

The region was the home to Endicott-Johnson shoe company and the birthplace of IBM, which between them employed tens of thousands of workers before the shoe company closed a decade ago and IBM downsized in recent years.

A string of attacks in the U.S. in the last month left 44 people dead in all.

A gunman killed 10 people and himself in Samson, Ala.; shootings that began with a traffic stop in Oakland, Calif., left four police officers and the gunman dead; an apparent murder-suicide in Santa Clara, Calif., left six dead; and a gunman went on a rampage at a nursing home Sunday, killing seven elderly residents and a nurse who cared for them.

___

Contributing to this report were Associated Press writers Michael Hill, John Kekis and Michael Rubinkam in Binghamton; Carolyn Thompson and John Wawrow in Buffalo, N.Y.; Jessica M. Pasko, George M. Walsh and Chris Carola in Albany; Ben Dobbin in Rochester, N.Y.; Daisy Nguyen in Los Angeles; and the AP News Information Research Center in New York.
 
Quote from gigsup:

Very true. But perhaps it could lessen the bloodshed if people took action.

Likely. Instead of 14 dead it might have been 2 or 3 (including gunman)
 
Quote from IShopAtPublix:

Does not it strike you as odd that US has these incidents on a regular basis? Does it have, ahem, something to do with availability of guns?

School shootings, work shootings, etc. are just business as usual. "

Sociologists went to work on that question. Canada has equal guns per person but far less shootings. The research came down to news reporing. In Canada they throw in some good news, the kind that raises serotonin levels in consumers of news, stories about acts of kindness largely... in the US they just hammer the public with stuff that kills off the serotonin, same as the cut and paste expert piece of shit that starts all these threads and a number of other posters on ET...

That shooter in the article was quoted in another article as saying how he hated the US... the guys that flew the planes into the buildings in New York were doing the same thing just before the incident... I am personally going to kick the shit out of any foreigner that I ever, ever catch talking like that, it might avert a lot of misery...

BTW, you can raise serotonin by taking 500mg of L-Tryptophan on an empty stomach three times a day and offset this horrible disservice to humanity that our communist news outlets are doing to us.. and you can laugh at the piece of shit cut and paste artists here that try to amplify the effect, I guess in their minds it's not going bad enough fast enough... pieces of shit are empowered by the ability to broadcast widely, they go to that like maggots go to pus...
 
Quote from Eight:

Sociologists went to work on that question. Canada has equal guns per person but far less shootings. The research came down to news reporing. In Canada they throw in some good news, the kind that raises serotonin levels in consumers of news, stories about acts of kindness largely... in the US they just hammer the public with stuff that kills off the serotonin, same as the cut and paste expert piece of shit that starts all these threads and a number of other posters on ET...

That shooter in the article was quoted in another article as saying how he hated the US... the guys that flew the planes into the buildings in New York were doing the same thing just before the incident... I am personally going to kick the shit out of any foreigner that I ever, ever catch talking like that, it might avert a lot of misery...

BTW, you can raise serotonin by taking 500mg of L-Tryptophan on an empty stomach three times a day and offset this horrible disservice to humanity that our communist news outlets are doing to us.. and you can laugh at the piece of shit cut and paste artists here that try to amplify the effect, I guess in their minds it's not going bad enough fast enough... pieces of shit are empowered by the ability to broadcast widely, they go to that like maggots go to pus...


Looks like you are on to something there. The negativity in the states is overwhelming. I bet Americans take more antidepressants than any other country in the world. It does appear to be by design does it not?
 
He knew English well enough to say "America sucks".

PrintBack to story .
As gunman's life fell apart, he took others'
By MICHAEL RUBINKAM, Associated Press Writer Michael Rubinkam, Associated Press Writer
41 mins ago

BINGHAMTON, N.Y. – Jiverly Wong was upset over losing his job at a vacuum plant, didn't like people picking on him for his limited English and once angrily told a co-worker, "America sucks."

It remains unclear exactly why the Vietnamese immigrant strapped on a bulletproof vest, barged in on a citizenship class and killed 13 people and himself, but the police chief says he knows one thing for sure: "He must have been a coward."

Jiverly Wong had apparently been preparing for a gun battle with police but changed course and decided to turn the gun on himself when he heard sirens approaching, Chief Joseph Zikuski said Saturday.

"He had a lot of ammunition on him, so thank God before more lives were lost, he decided to do that," the chief said.

Police and Wong's acquaintances portrayed him as an angry, troubled 41-year-old man who struggled with drugs and job loss and perhaps blamed his adopted country for his troubles. His rampage "was not a surprise" to those who knew him, Zikuski said.

"He felt degraded because people were apparently making fun of his poor English speaking," the chief said.

Wong, who used the alias Jiverly Voong, believed people close to him were making fun of him for his poor English language skills, the chief said.

Until last month, he had been taking classes at the American Civic Association, which teaches English to immigrants and helps them prepare for citizenship tests.

Then, on Friday, he parked his car against the back door of the association, burst through the front doors and shot two receptionists, killing one, before moving on to a classroom where he claimed 12 more victims, police said.

The police chief said that most of the dead had multiple gunshot wounds. Wong used two handguns — a 9 mm and a .45-caliber — for which he had obtained a permit more than a decade ago.

The receptionist who survived, 61-year-old Shirley DeLucia, played dead, then called 911 despite her injuries and stayed on the line while the gunman remained in the building.

"She's a hero in her own right," he said.

Police initially said it took 90 minutes to rescue her. On Saturday, Zikuski said it was actually 39 minutes, and he said the police response followed all proper procedures.

"The police did the right thing," he said.

DeLucia remained in critical condition Saturday. The chief said she and three other hospitalized victims were all expected to survive, and that police were in no hurry to question her.

"We're giving her a break. There's no reason to put her through that," he said.

Binghamton police are withholding the names of victims until they have notified relatives and can release all the names at once. Each autopsy takes two to four hours, and authorities are struggling to track down families around the globe.

Wong's tactics — including the body armor and copious ammunition — fit him into a category of killers called "pseudo-commandos," said Park Dietz, a criminologist and forensic psychiatrist at UCLA who analyzed the Columbine High School shootings in Colorado in 1999.

Barricading the back doors to trap his prey "was his way of ensuring that he could maximize his kill rate," Dietz said. "This was all about anger, paranoia, and desperation."

Wong was born in Vietnam to an ethnically Chinese family. He moved to the States in the early 1990s and soon afterward became a citizen, friends and relatives said. He worked at IBM for a time, friend Hue Huynh said, but decided to move to California.

There, he worked for seven years at a caterer called Kikka Sushi, eventually making $9 an hour, said Paulus Lukas, the company's human resources manager.

"He was really good at doing his job — we respected him for that," Lukas told the Los Angeles Times. "He's never late, he's always punctual. And when he finishes his job, he goes home. He doesn't complain, he doesn't argue with people. He gets along."

But one day he simply didn't show up for work, Lukas told the Times. Early last year, he called asking the company to send his tax forms to a New York state address.

Back in New York, he worked at the Shop-Vac plant in Binghamton. Former co-worker Kevin Greene told the Daily News of New York that Wong once said, in answer to whether he liked the New York Yankees, "No, I don't like that team. I don't like America. America sucks."

Zikuski said Wong was fired from that job, where he assembled vacuum cleaners. That's apparently when things really started to go downhill.

"People who end up doing this particular thing have an accumulation of stressers in their lives, and ultimately there is the one that broke the camel's back," Dietz said. "Job loss is one of the big ones, and those stressers are happening more often this year."

Huynh, the 56-year-old proprietor of an Asian grocery store in Binghamton frequented by the gunman's sister, ran into Wong at the gym recently and noted that he was complaining about how he couldn't find work.

His unemployment benefits were only $200 a week, and he lamented his bad luck, she said.

"He's upset he don't have a job here. He come back and want to work," Huynh said. Her husband tried to cheer him up by saying that he was still young and had plenty of time to find work.

Wong's story is similar to how friends were describing the recent trials of a man accused of opening fire on Pittsburgh police officers during a domestic dispute Saturday, killing three of them. They said he had recently been upset about losing his job; police say that, like Wong, he was wearing a bulletproof vest.

A woman reached at the home who identified herself as Wong's sister told The Associated Press late Friday she did not believe he was the gunman. "I think somebody involved, not him," she said.

That's not an unusual response, Dietz said.

"What will be revealed if the investigation goes deep enough is that many people in a shooter's world knew that he was angry, mad, unreasonable, scary at times, and recently some of them came to learn that he was threatening and armed," said Dietz, who is not involved in the Binghamton investigation.

"They've known that for a long time, but none of them did what they should have done with that information."

State police got tips suggesting that Wong may have been planning a bank robbery in 1999, possibly to support a crack-cocaine addiction, Zikuski said. But the robbery never happened, and Zikuski had no other information.

Wong's father was well-known in the Binghamton area through his work years ago at the now-defunct World Relief Organization, helping recent immigrants find a doctor and obtain food stamps.

"Everyone, when they come to America, he's the one who helps," said Ty Tran, who came to the United States in 1990.

Mark Preston, 48, a neighbor of the gunman in Johnson City, outside Binghamton, said people in the family keep to themselves but often tended the bushes in their yard.

"They grow great vegetables and roses," he said.

___

Associated Press writers John Wawrow in Buffalo, N.Y., and John Kekis in Binghamton contributed to this report.

[\quote]
 
Quote from hughb:


BINGHAMTON, N.Y. – Jiverly Wong was upset...

So there's your explanation. People get upset and start killing everybody. Nuff said.
 
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