NY expo notes

I was at the NY Trading Expo this past weekend, Saturday and Sunday. Interesting stuff, but nowhere near where this event was these past few years. I don't have any real statistics, but my impression was that although there were at least as many attendees there as last year, we had about half the number of vendors that participated last year (about 1/3 of the number of vendors that participaped at the peak of this Expo, which, I think, was in 2002.)

The big guys were showing off the newest versions of their regular stuff (eg, Realtick, Fidelity, TradeStation, CyberTrader, eSignal, etc) while the more or less famous gurus were teaching seminars for pay (eg, Linda Raschke, Alex Elder, Tony Oz, et al). I thought that their seninars were well attended, even at those prices (but no comprehensive hard data, just my impression.) Certainly, the Realtick etc free seminars were totally full, usually standing room only.

What was clearly missing was that familiar crowd of mid/small size firms that peddle innovative trading tools and services to traders. Only a few of those vendors bothered to show up: Traders International, Pristine, Best Choice, etc. I saw at least 6 vendors for Forex products and services - newest fad? Imo, Forex is preparing to become the next cemetery for new traders, who are drawn by empty promises and unaware of the fact that that particular aspect of trading the markets is unregulated and you can get seriously dead for dabbling, or even being, there. Interestingly, Don Bright (who always gives sort of "fiery" presentations, never taking any prisoners) chose to lambast those guys seriously, and I didn't blame him. Although I have not decided to jump into the prop trading arena yet, I always like listening to Don and Bob, they are very amusing despite the fact that they often spice their presentations with a negative view of what's happening (ie, if it's not what they sell, it must be terrible... maybe not that bad, but close :) )

Now, why is that? I mean, why fewer vendors? My theory is that as the market dropped in 2000 and later, and also became more erratic, the number of active traders gradually diminished, but the number of vendors that could afford to travel to NY for this Expo didn't drop quite as fast. These guys seem to be making decisions based on last year's data. However, after getting there a couple of times and not getting enough orders, they decided to stay home this year. And yet, I can see that the number of traders is again on the rise, because the market is now much more workable than it has been lately. According to this theory, there should be more vendors there next year. We'll see.

Overall the atmosphere was not as ebullient as I had experienced it over the past few years, and so I decided not to return on Monday, the 16th.
 
good observations, yannis. one factor that may have kept out the smaller vendors is cost. i spoke to one of the vendors from the midwest and he advised me that it cost 3k to move his booth to the marriott from his office, then another 3k for the union to move it upstairs ! that seems outrageous to me--3k to move a booth up an elevator and set it up ? i was also told-- 1200.00 for weekend internet connection, 2000.00 to rent a plasma TV, and the list goes on and on---my calculations figure of a minimum cost of 25k to properly exhibit at the show.

i agree with don bright regarding the forex scene. i was surprised at their numbers at the show. an odd thing is a very large dealer FXCM had a very very small booth. there was one clown called "concorde financial group" who claimed 100-150 wining trades in a row and was selling an amway multi level approach to obtaining clients--they called it mentoring. you can be a mentor to the people you sign up for their service, and get paid ! how bogus is this ? i checked their materials and they are not even a broker--more like an introducing broker to FXCM or something it seems. weird stuff !

surfer

surfer
 
I went to the expo hoping to see something new and exciting. Alas, nothing new this year. Walked up to one futures broker to ask about his comp...and before I could get the word "hello" out of my mouth he barks at me "$5 ROUND TURN ON THE MINI DOW". Classy move. Another booth was selling there trading system and after I listened patiently to their pitch asked them "if the system is this good why sell it.. why not just just trade it and get rich"....vendors response = "hummana hummana hummana". All in all the best part was the free loud orange t-shirt I got from realtick.

Chris
 
so everybody just walking around soaked in atmosphere, had some free beers without actually sitting in any of presentations?
 
During the keynote address interesting to hear the Ameritrade CIO talk about how the retail traders are back in large numbers and they are very active. He said the industry is doing 5 times the vol it did a year ago in Jan 2003.

I have noticed that with my family and friends who are non-traders, after suffering a 70% loss in the nasdaq bubble, they are back trading their Fidelity and schwab accounts like crazy, and there is good reason all these $4 nas stocks are now $15.

It was the first time I saw Larry Williams, I always thought that he was somewhat cheesy, but listening to him, he is a very smart level headed guy. However he is from the old school of trading, started back in 1960's, he thinks day trading is stupid, also thinks no one can make money in Forex and Nasdaq stocks.
 
First time posting a repy.
Been reading the posts on this site for nearly two years now. Some very intelligent folks here.

As for the Expo, I agree with Yanus and others that is was lean this year. Of course one has to receive a Realtick shirt or your not a true expo goer. I only attended Sunday for a full day and figured enough was enough.
When I arrived Sat evening to reg and pickup the materials I was expecting things to be more fruitfull given the new larger directory.
Call it the "Directory Indicator".
Turned out the directory indicator fell short.
I would be appreciative if others might direct me to (past threads. I found some) or expand on there FOREX perspectives.
Decided to put down my persuit of the S&P's for now. 4-6 years of on and off is enough, even with mini's.
I thought the forex might be a better alternative for two reasons.
1. Trading hours don't conflict as directly with my present means of putting food on the table for the family.
2. The ability to paper trade until the the cow jumps over the moon. Meaning developing complete comfort with using a particular execution platform. The opprotunity to work on the 4xmadeeasy program until I either learn to follow the rules or drop out. All the time costing me no more after the initial investment and the monthly $100.00 for data feed.

For those that may say paper trading is a bunch on non-sense. That may be so for you, but not me. I get the EXACT same emotions in a paper that I do in an actual. Years of actually lossing money has built in that conditioning.

Please comment.

Tim
 
The problem with paper trading is when someone does it too long before actually putting money on the line. If you've already got significant experience in that arena, then paper trading a system to test it out is fine-you know not to get too carried away with your results until it goes live.

As for the Expo, we didn't go to this one. But stay tuned, EliteTrader will have a higher profile in Chicago this year, and hopefully that will be a nice addition to the show.
 
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