Nothing Beats Price Action, Everything Else is Derivative

forexfox · May 16, 2008

Quote from Epiphany:

All indicators are a derivative of price, yes. And so then you jump to the conclusion that the derivative therefore must be less useful than price action itself

Consider the concept of 'NOISE' in a data series - which an indicator can help filter out

Which indicator can help out filter the noise please?

gnome · May 16, 2008

Quote from forexfox:

Which indicator can help out filter the noise please?

Trying to filter out noise and false indications... that's what "indicators" and "volume considerations" are all about.... nothing works well enough for most players.

TrueRange · May 16, 2008

Quote from ElCubano:

the only indicator i use is P&L.....now that mo-fo never lies....flip a coin pick a side and monitor the p&l to tell you wether to add or unload....

ElCubano speaks the simple truth of daytrading. Nothing more, nothing less.

slapshot · May 16, 2008

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

Just because he's a longterm term ET'er who is using another alias doesn't mean that he is a troll.

I'll have to ask you to stay on topic and discuss price action or please give another thread the benefit of your wisdom ... LOL.

Later,

Jimmy Jam

If anyone has any questions, please refer to the lesson on page 22 of the thread.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I have tried to discuss "price action" and asked 2 coherent questions that have been evaded by both of you. To the point where the only reponses I am given are that I am "lying to myslef" or "vulnerable as a trader".

Y'all seem to have a very cult-like mentality about PA, and yet cannot clearly even define your critieria or substantiate WHY you think you are the ones who have seen the "truth".

By the way, you don't own the thread, it is not your place to filter comments - and I don't see "moderator" under your handle anywhere.

And it has been my experience that only people with a hidden agenda on ET find it necessary to re-register here.

slapshot · May 16, 2008

QUESTION NUMBER ONE:

Take a good histogram indicator that on a modern sofware platform updates tick-by-tick, right along with price. It is based on price. It updates exactly along with price.

So how does this lag any more than your human interpretation of price when it is happening at the exact same time? The graphic visual display hits the charts at the exact same moment - tell me how this lags!

Please explain this . . .

---------------------------------------------------------------------

QUESTION NUMBER TWO:

And while we are at it, basically there has been two main themes or definitions of PA discussed:

1) Tape Reading (the DOM or T&S) as PA

2) Price Bar Reading (Trend, Pivots, Higher-Highs, etc.) as PA

So there apparently is no one "true price action"

A scalper uses tape price action to scalp and would think that a trend is not true price action

A pivot trader is less worried about T&S and more worried about reading the highs/lows of the bars and S/R.

And yet both can make money.

So which one are you defending? Since trading what you see is all about perception, what do you perceive as the "only way" to trade well?

Please explain this . . .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

(And by the way, I am a price action trader, I only use one indicator to filter out some bad trades here and there, because even PA can fool a person sometimes. I am not defending indicators and I even agree that they are used as a crutch by inferior traders as a methodology instead of as a tool with a limited use to complement perception of the markets.

So I am not even disagreeing with you, just asking for more elaboration besides "Pure PA is the only way to go!")

MandelbrotSet · May 16, 2008

Quote from slapshot:

I have tried to discuss "price action" and asked 2 coherent questions that have been evaded by both of you. To the point where the only reponses I am given are that I am "lying to myslef" or "vulnerable as a trader".

Y'all seem to have a very cult-like mentality about PA, and yet cannot clearly even define your critieria or substantiate WHY you think you are the ones who have seen the "truth".

By the way, you don't own the thread, it is not your place to filter comments - and I don't see "moderator" under your handle anywhere.

And it has been my experience that only people with a hidden agenda on ET find it necessary to re-register here.

I'm the OP.

I started the thread with the stated interest of having traders (both experienced and not so much) make intelligent and insightful discussions about the use of price action in their trading ... and how it tends to result in (very) profitable trades by a very high margin.

I am (very) happy with the responses given, and if a diligent trader where to pursue the avenues given they would certainly be richly rewarded for their efforts. They certainly give an answer to anyone who is serious about asking one.

Speaking of moderators, they know me, and for me to have started a thread like this where information is shared despite the more deleterious aspects of ET, something very positive must have happened.

If you really want to continue with the negativity, I'll be more than happy to hit the complain button (and ask others who are gaining something from the thread to do so as well).

When will people learn ... the other traders are not your enemy, you are.

MandelbrotSet · May 16, 2008

Quote from slapshot:

QUESTION NUMBER ONE:

Take a good histogram indicator that on a modern sofware platform updates tick-by-tick, right along with price. It is based on price. It updates exactly along with price. So how does this lag any more than your human interpretation of price? Please explain this . . .

OK, pay attention.

I don't use histogram indicators to trade, so I can't give you a reasonable explanation about whether this is true or not true ... ultimately, since I have found what I was looking for, it doesn't matter to me

QUESTION NUMBER TWO:

And while we are at it, basically there has been two main themes or definitions of PA discussed:

1) Tape Reading (the DOM or T&S) as PA

2) Price Bar Reading (Trend, Pivots, Higher-Highs, etc.) as PA

So there apparently is no one "true price action"

So which one are you defending? Please explain this . . .

I already said I'm not defending anything (as a trader why would I start a thread defending something that is making me money everyday).

Whatever the means a trader has to process the information they use to trade, remember, nothing beats price action ... and whenever I choose to over look that principle, I get my head handed to me, so I'll just stick with it "as is".

***
Wow, was I ever this dense?

Yeah, I know I was. I know you guys (collectively) are laughing because I'm getting my "just desserts", LOL.

Everyone have a great weekened (and stay humble

).

MandelbrotSet · May 16, 2008

Quote from slapshot:

(And by the way, I am a price action trader, I only use one indicator to filter out some bad trades here and there, because even PA can fool a person sometimes. I am not defending indicators and I even agree that they are used as a crutch by inferior traders as a methodology instead of as a tool with a limited use to complement perception of the markets.

So I am not even disagreeing with you, just asking for more elaboration besides "Pure PA is the only way to go!")

All that *#@!#!*Z1!! work and you're just playing "devils advocate"? :mad:

Mister, I'm a busy man. Go troll someplace else.

Bye

slapshot · May 16, 2008

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

I'm the OP.

I started the thread with the stated interest of having traders (both experienced and not so much) make intelligent and insightful discussions about the use of price action in their trading ... and how it tends to result in (very) profitable trades by a very high margin.

I am (very) happy with the responses given, and if a diligent trader where to pursue the avenues given they would certainly be richly rewarded for their efforts. They certainly give an answer to anyone who is serious about asking one.

Speaking of moderators, they know me, and for me to have started a thread like this where information is shared despite the more deleterious aspects of ET, something very positive must have happened.

If you really want to continue with the negativity, I'll be more than happy to hit the complain button (and ask others who are gaining something from the thread to do so as well).

When will people learn ... the other traders are not your enemy, you are.

1) what does "the OP" mean?

2) try to not be so disparaging in your ending remarks if you hold such a high standard - you talk down to people too much - try re-reading what you write

- you said "stay humble" and yet you express zero humility by implying that eveyone else who doesn't agree with you must be stupid

3) in case you haven't noticed, I've been here 5 years longer than you and have been a long-time positive contributor

slapshot · May 16, 2008

Quote from MandelbrotSet:

OK, pay attention.

I don't use histogram indicators to trade, so I can't give you a reasonable explanation about whether this is true or not true ... ultimately, since I have found what I was looking for, it doesn't matter to me

I already said I'm not defending anything (as a trader why would I start a thread defending something that is making me money everyday).

Whatever the means a trader has to process the information they use to trade, remember, nothing beats price action ... and whenever I choose to over look that principle, I get my head handed to me, so I'll just stick with it "as is".
***
Wow, was I ever this dense?

Yeah, I know I was. I know you guys (collectively) are laughing because I'm getting my "just desserts", LOL.

Everyone have a great weekened (and stay humble ).

Here you are calling me dense when you can't even seem to comprehend the point of my question . . . nor will you answer it with anything but bragging and bile.

This seems like a very small, egocentric way to have a discussion.