Not Getting Filled, Just A Sleepy Day?

[Arnie Guitar]

So I've placed several orders this morning and am not getting filled, even though I see the spread trading at a greater spread than my my limit order.

I thought that all lesser limit orders must be filled before the spread can increase? For example, one of my orders is for 10/10 contracts for a .30 limit, and the spread is currently at .55!

Just sleepy, boring day with not enough volume, eh? They are low volume puts, so that's it, right?

The orders are for vertical bull put credit spreads on the S&P 500.

 

[jstancliff]

I had trouble getting fills today as well on SPX. I was right at the mids with several bull put spreads for several hours today. Must be very sleepy day.

 

[Epic]

Quote from Arnie Guitar:

So I've placed several orders this morning and am not getting filled, even though I see the spread trading at a greater spread than my my limit order.

I thought that all lesser limit orders must be filled before the spread can increase? For example, one of my orders is for 10/10 contracts for a .30 limit, and the spread is currently at .55!

Just sleepy, boring day with not enough volume, eh? They are low volume puts, so that's it, right?

The orders are for vertical bull put credit spreads on the S&P 500.

You'd be filled if you were taking the natural but you are at the mid, so there is no rule saying that you should get filled.

 

[short&naked]

Much of the liquidity is hidden and not available electronically. Most hedge funds that trade options have somebody on the floor. Believe it or not having this connection can get you filled faster than via an electronic platform.

 

[Arnie Guitar]

Quote from Epic:

You'd be filled if you were taking the natural but you are at the mid, so there is no rule saying that you should get filled.

I think we have a teachable moment here...

I am not familiar with the term "taking the natural". I looked it up on the internet but did not find anything.

Could you, or someone, explain what that means?

Thank you.

 

[mushinseeker]

means buying the offer and selling the bid.

 

[psytrade]

Not all strikes have liquidity at any given time.. you have to look where the open interest is most active...

 

[Epic]

Quote from Arnie Guitar:

I think we have a teachable moment here...

I am not familiar with the term "taking the natural". I looked it up on the internet but did not find anything.

Could you, or someone, explain what that means?

Thank you.

As MushinSeeker said, buying the offer and selling the bid, but I'll expound a bit.

Options traders, specifically those trading highly liquid options such as SPY, get in a habit of getting filled at the mid. This happens so frequently that they start to expect it and treat the mid as if that is the actual market price of the option. But just like any other security there is no single market price, there are always two market prices, the bid and offer. If you are wanting to buy, then the true market price is the offer, and it is the bid if you wish to sell. You then say, "the spread is @ 0.55 and my .30 isn't getting filled. That is because both of them are inside the natural. For that spread, if the mid is at 0.55, the natural is probably something like 0.20 bid and 0.80 offer.

Frequently you hear about slippage. If you are always getting filled (round trip) at the mid and the price didn't move against you to get you filled, then there is no slippage. But you cannot always get filled at the mid, so you end up having slippage either when you open the position or close it. Taking the natural both ways means that you must overcome a huge amount of slippage to overcome the inherent negative expectancy of the trade.

Futures traders just accept the fact that they almost always have to take the natural. But spreads are tight, so slippage is minimal as compared to options.

 

[FrankSlaughtery]

Just stick to liquid options and UL's and you don't have to worry about any of this. It sucks giving up 10% or more on entry/exit. What good is a good trade if it's badly executed?

 

[Arnie Guitar]

Quote from FrankSlaughtery:

Just stick to liquid options and UL's and you don't have to worry about any of this. It sucks giving up 10% or more on entry/exit. What good is a good trade if it's badly executed?

Thanks a lot Frank, forcing me to admit more ignorance...

Liquid options, UL's?

Anyone feel like holding my hand and explaining these two terms?

I'll take a stab at liquid options: options with greater volume?

UL's? Don't know...



(I know what you're thinking...geez, this guy doesn't know this stuff and he's in the options market? Is he loony?... )