Not 97% but .3% of Climatologists agree.

Quote from jem:

1. No... I am saying the .3 percent of the science papers which say they know man made co2 is causing warming are guessing without science to back them up.

2. How many times do I have to show you this nasa study...
look at the sentence of this quoted section...
can you read it.....

Infrared radiation from CO2 and NO, the two most efficient coolants in the thermosphere, re-radiated 95% of that total back into space. That is why they cool CO2 a thermostat... it can act as a cool mechanism or a warming mechanism.





http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2012/22mar_saber/

“Carbon dioxide and nitric oxide are natural thermostats,” explains James Russell of Hampton University, SABER’s principal investigator. “When the upper atmosphere (or ‘thermosphere’) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.”
That’s what happened on March 8th when a coronal mass ejection (CME) propelled in our direction by an X5-class solar flare hit Earth’s magnetic field. (On the “Richter Scale of Solar Flares,” X-class flares are the most powerful kind.) Energetic particles rained down on the upper atmosphere, depositing their energy where they hit. The action produced spectacular auroras around the poles and significant1 upper atmospheric heating all around the globe.
“The thermosphere lit up like a Christmas tree,” says Russell. “It began to glow intensely at infrared wavelengths as the thermostat effect kicked in.”
For the three day period, March 8th through 10th, the thermosphere absorbed 26 billion kWh of energy. Infrared radiation from CO2 and NO, the two most efficient coolants in the thermosphere, re-radiated 95% of that total back into space.

Once again, you are mistaking your stupidity as theirs. They certainly do have science showing man has caused the warming.

Do you know what a negative feedback mechanism is?

No matter how many times you cite bullshit, it is still bullshit. CO2 does not act like a thermostat. Nor does science say it does. Period, end of story.

Do you know what a negative feedback mechanism is? Apparently you don't.
 
1. your ignorance is stunning...
one of the better papers your side has (although still speculative) speaks of CO2 being a thermostat.

2. from wikipedia.

A thermostat is a component of a control system which senses the temperature of a system so that the system's temperature is maintained near a desired setpoint. The thermostat does this by switching heating or cooling devices on or off, or regulating the flow of a heat transfer fluid as needed, to maintain the correct temperature.

3. according to greenhouse theory GHC trap heat in.
according to NASA and the study I just quoted...

CO2 also keeps heat out.


4. That is why they say it is like a thermostat... einstein you are not...
did you get your degree online?


Quote from futurecurrents:

Once again, you are mistaking your stupidity as theirs. They certainly do have science showing man has caused the warming.

Do you know what a negative feedback mechanism is?

No matter how many times you cite bullshit, it is still bullshit. CO2 does not act like a thermostat. Nor does science say it does. Period, end of story.

Do you know what a negative feedback mechanism is? Apparently you don't.
 
Quote from jem:

1. your ignorance is stunning...
one of the better papers your side has (although still speculative) speaks of CO2 being a thermostat.

2. from wikipedia.

A thermostat is a component of a control system which senses the temperature of a system so that the system's temperature is maintained near a desired setpoint. The thermostat does this by switching heating or cooling devices on or off, or regulating the flow of a heat transfer fluid as needed, to maintain the correct temperature.

3. according to greenhouse theory GHC trap heat in.
according to NASA and the study I just quoted...

CO2 also keeps heat out.


4. That is why they say it is like a thermostat... einstein you are not...
did you get your degree online?

So you still don't know what a negative feedback mechanism is and that a thermostat is a negative feedback mechanism and CO2 does not act like a negative feedback mechanism.

You need more than a WIKI article to help you. But the switching on and off is the negative feedback mechanism. CO2 does not do that. CO2 acts like a blanket. Blankets are not negative feedback mechanisms

Why you can't understand this simple concept is a mystery.

But it could have something to do with you being a right wing nut job above all else.

And "they" do not say CO2 is a thermostat you fucking lying douchebag.
 
Quote from futurecurrents:


And "they" do not say CO2 is a thermostat you fucking lying douchebag.

Let's see what NASA has to say about this.

CO2: The Thermostat that Controls Earth's Temperature
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/lacis_01/

A study by GISS climate scientists recently published in the journal Science shows that atmospheric CO2 operates as a thermostat to control the temperature of Earth.

There is a close analogy to be drawn between the way an ordinary thermostat maintains the temperature of a house, and the way that atmospheric carbon dioxide (and the other minor non-condensing greenhouse gases) control the global temperature of Earth. The ordinary thermostat produces no heat of its own. Its role is to switch the furnace on and off, depending on whether the house temperature is lower or higher than the thermostat setting. If we were to carefully monitor the temperature of the house, we would see that the temperature does not stay constant at the set value, but rather exhibits a "natural variability" as the house temperature slips below the set value and then overshoots the mark with a time constant of minutes to tens of minutes, because of the thermal inertia of the house and because heating by the furnace (when it is on) is more powerful than the steady heat loss to the outdoors. If the thermostat is suddenly turned to a very high setting, the temperature will begin to rise at a rate dictated by the inertia of the house and strength of the furnace. Turning the thermostat back to normal will stop the heating.

Atmospheric carbon dioxide performs a role similar to that of the house thermostat in setting the equilibrium temperature of the Earth. It differs from the house thermostat in that carbon dioxide itself is a potent greenhouse gas (GHG) warming the ground surface by means of the greenhouse effect.


(more at above url)
 
Quote from Ricter:

It's true, look at Venus. Atmospheric, "thermostatic" CO2 there is holding temps at a pretty steady 450<sup>o</sup> C.

You fail to mention that 96.5% of Venuses atmosphere is CO2.
The percentage of CO2 in the earth's atmosphere is 0.0387%.

300px-AtmosphereofVenus.svg.png

Pie chart of the atmosphere of Venus. The chart on the right is an expanded view of the trace elements that all together do not even make up a tenth of a percent.
 
Quote from gwb-trading:

You fail to mention that 96.5% of Venuses atmosphere is CO2.
The percentage of CO2 in the earth's atmosphere is 0.0387%.

300px-AtmosphereofVenus.svg.png

Pie chart of the atmosphere of Venus. The chart on the right is an expanded view of the trace elements that all together do not even make up a tenth of a percent.
Why would I need to mention that, to explain the 460<sup>o</sup> C?
 
Quote from gwb-trading:

You fail to mention that 96.5% of Venuses atmosphere is CO2.
The percentage of CO2 in the earth's atmosphere is 0.0387%.


Ricter:


egg+on+face.jpg
 
Quote from gwb-trading:

Let's see what NASA has to say about this.

CO2: The Thermostat that Controls Earth's Temperature
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/lacis_01/

A study by GISS climate scientists recently published in the journal Science shows that atmospheric CO2 operates as a thermostat to control the temperature of Earth.

There is a close analogy to be drawn between the way an ordinary thermostat maintains the temperature of a house, and the way that atmospheric carbon dioxide (and the other minor non-condensing greenhouse gases) control the global temperature of Earth. The ordinary thermostat produces no heat of its own. Its role is to switch the furnace on and off, depending on whether the house temperature is lower or higher than the thermostat setting. If we were to carefully monitor the temperature of the house, we would see that the temperature does not stay constant at the set value, but rather exhibits a "natural variability" as the house temperature slips below the set value and then overshoots the mark with a time constant of minutes to tens of minutes, because of the thermal inertia of the house and because heating by the furnace (when it is on) is more powerful than the steady heat loss to the outdoors. If the thermostat is suddenly turned to a very high setting, the temperature will begin to rise at a rate dictated by the inertia of the house and strength of the furnace. Turning the thermostat back to normal will stop the heating.

Atmospheric carbon dioxide performs a role similar to that of the house thermostat in setting the equilibrium temperature of the Earth. It differs from the house thermostat in that carbon dioxide itself is a potent greenhouse gas (GHG) warming the ground surface by means of the greenhouse effect.


(more at above url)


Thanks for this, I can see why you/jem would accept the analogy and perhaps I was too hard on you both for running with it.

However, despite what the Dr says - and I otherwise respect him very much - the analogy is NOT a close one.

Here is a graphic from that article.

fig1_s.gif



So we can see there are both forcing factors and responding, or feedback factors. CO2 is NOT a feedback factor. A thermostat is a feedback factor.

More precisely, the CO2 levels act as the "temperature setting" ON the thermostat. He says this here...

"The bottom line is that CO2 is absolutely, positively, and without question, the single most important greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. It acts very much like a control knob that determines the overall strength of the Earth’s greenhouse effect. Failure to control atmospheric CO2 is a bad way to run a business, and a surefire ticket to climatic disaster."

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/lacis-at-nasa-on-role-of-co2-in-warming/?_r=0



So the CO2 level is analogous to the set-point ON the thermostat whereas water vapor and clouds act as the thermostatic/feedback mechanism itself.


************************


This is an example of why you can't cherry pick one statement, one chart, one study, to act as the foundation of an argument. Unless of course your intent is to deceive, and circumvent the 97% of charts, studies and statements that make your argument look ridiculous.

This is also a good example of the kind of thing found on denialist websites which is where jem probably found it to begin with.
 
oh you could see how I chose to educate myself by reading the papers and you kept yourself ignorant of the science.

and you of course realize that paper is simply and explanation of how it might work... that is not proof of a theory. Which is part of the reason I did not quote it.


Quote from futurecurrents:

Thanks for this, I can see why you/jem would accept the analogy and perhaps I was too hard on you both for running with it.

However, despite what the Dr says - and I otherwise respect him very much - the analogy is NOT a close one.

Here is a graphic from that article.

fig1_s.gif



So we can see there are both forcing factors and responding, or feedback factors. CO2 is NOT a feedback factor. A thermostat is a feedback factor.

More precisely, the CO2 levels act as the "temperature setting" ON the thermostat. He says this here...

"The bottom line is that CO2 is absolutely, positively, and without question, the single most important greenhouse gas in the atmosphere. It acts very much like a control knob that determines the overall strength of the Earth’s greenhouse effect. Failure to control atmospheric CO2 is a bad way to run a business, and a surefire ticket to climatic disaster."

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/lacis-at-nasa-on-role-of-co2-in-warming/?_r=0



So the CO2 level is analogous to the set-point ON the thermostat whereas water vapor and clouds act as the thermostatic/feedback mechanism itself.


************************


This is an example of why you can't cherry pick one statement, one chart, one study, to act as the foundation of an argument. Unless of course your intent is to deceive, and circumvent the 97% of charts, studies and statements that make your argument look ridiculous.

This is also a good example of the kind of thing found on denialist websites which is where jem probably found it to begin with.
 
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