North Korea's Nuclear Weapons
- Thread starter SouthAmerica
- Start date
Careful, they do know judo.
December 5, 2010
SouthAmerica: We have a discussion going on on this subject at Brazzil magazine and here is what I posted today:
Reply to Ederson
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010
Ricardo: On Sunday (December 5, 2010), North Korea gave a warning to the United States and South Korea that the political situation in that area of the world is reaching an uncontrollable level.
***
05/12/2010 - 02h35
âPyongyang adverte Seul e Washington contra novas manobras militaresâ
DA EFE, EM SEUL
Folha de Sao Paulo
A Coreia do Norte advertiu neste domingo Seul e Washington que haverá consequências se foram realizadas novas manobras conjuntas no Mar Amarelo (Mar Ocidental) e assinalou que a situação polÃtica na região está alcançando "um nÃvel incontrolável".
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/m...ares.shtml
*****
Ederson: ...Secondly, I claim mo great knowledge concerning the science of killing people by using the bomb, but I have questioned many times the "what and why" of such a disaster.
*****
Ricardo: When a country decides to use a nuclear warhead the objective is not to kill people â the goal can be something else.
If North Korea attacks Tokyo with multiple nuclear warheads â the main objective is to cause a total collapse of the global international monetary system based on the US dollar.
Forget about nuclear retaliation against North Korea â the people from around the world would cause a major run into the banking system creating a massive implosion of the entire system.
We would have Panic everywhere with massive banking failures, collapsing stock markets, the entire financial system would turn into chaos, with run on supermarkets to get the food that still is available â paper money would become worthless almost immediately after the nuclear weapons attack, and so on.....
At that point who cares if the United States or anyone else retaliates against North Korea, since most of the news would be about the collapsing and imploding economic and financial system.
From the point view of North Korea they would have achieved their goal â the total collapse of the US economy. And the North Koreans have been preparing themselves for the big day for the last 50 years, and finally the opportunity for such a grand finale has arrived â the final showdown with the United States.
*****
Ederson: Ricardo, your first question concerning Japan's defenses. Many people believe that Japan is already a nuclear country. In any event, it is obvious that Japan has both the material to build effective nuclear weapons and the ability. Some estimates state that Japan could go nuclear in as little as a few weeks if its leaders decide to.
*****
Ricardo: I am sure Japan has nuclear weapons capabilities, and I am also sure that Germany has it.
After a North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo, we would have a collapsing economic and financial system around the world, and that would take all the attention from people everywhere when the economic system is collapsing all around of us.
At that point there is so much confusion everywhere that the last thing you want is for a nuclear war to get out of control.
*****
Ederson: Would the Yanks help Japan?
Your scenario concerning 5 or 6 North Korean nukes against Japan is not a worthy first strike on Japan. It will kill untold thousands but in the end, only guarantee the North's destruction by Japan. The Japanese are one of the least likely nations to sit back and take a nuclear strike calmly.
*****
Ricardo: What follows the North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo is irrelevant, since North Korea already has achieved its goal â the economic and financial destruction of the United States.
*****
Ederson: Ricardo. China does not want such a war to happen. The Chinese have invested in North Korea so that it may serve as a bully and a counter to Japan and to a lesser extent Russia and India.
*****
Ricardo: From the North Korean point of view this is an excellent opportunity for David to destroy Goliath â and their mindset is geared for such a occasion and spectacular event.
The leaders of North Korea don't want to end up like Saddam Hussein with a rope around their neck.
They are cornered, being provoked and intimidated, they are going to lose the war anyway â then why not go with a big blast?
That's the way to go....
*****
Ederson: China may not help North Korea in a nuclear battle involving the Yanks. Remember, the Koreans are a proxy of the Chinese and expendable to a point. The Chinese will allow the North Koreans to be taught a lesson, but will not allow them to be invaded, ever.
*****
Ricardo: At that point it does not matter what China thinks the North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo has triggered a massive chain reaction with bank runs and collapse, and stock market meltdowns like never seen before.
The United States financial and economic system is in intensive care right now and this time around the Fed and the US Treasury will be completely powerless to be able to save the system from total collapse.
*****
Ederson: I'm curious. Are there any economists who have written at length or discussed the effects of a post-nuclear conflict? That would be fascinating reading, even if it's only a limited exchange, I should think great walls will come tumbling down.
*****
Ricardo: I am not aware of anybody writing about that subject.
What I wrote above is my guess as I think about the subject. But I have no idea how the world economy would work if we have a sudden collapse of the US dollar as I described above.
I remember reading articles about the Great Hanshin earthquake, or Kobe earthquake, was an earthquake that occurred on Tuesday, January 17, 1995 â the articles said that if such earthquake had occurred in Tokyo that would have triggered the collapse of the US dollar.
These articles were long and described in detail how the earthquake would generate so much damage to the city of Tokyo in turn Japan would need to use its US dollar reserves to reconstruct their country.
***********
Reply to Ederson
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010
Ricardo: Ederson, I am glad that you got the main point of the discussion. The comments of all these other guys shows that they did not grasp the core and essence of this conversation.
In my opinion, the United States is playing a reckless game by playing military games and provoking North Korea at a critical time â it is like the US wants North Korea to over-react and go for the final showdown with the United States â that reflect the American âRambo mindsetâ.
If the United States were secure about the image of military superpower that it tries so hard to project around the world, then this childish war games that they are going to play with Japan to provoke North Korea would not be necessary.
But the reality is very different, and we can see how effective US military power is in Afghanistan â basically is nothing to write home about it.
If a country can't show in the battlefield how powerful and effective its Army is, then they have to go for the make believe war games to show on the news around the world how powerful their military is Hollywood style â just a facade, and an artificial or deceptive front.....
These war games that the United States is going to play with Japan is a good definition for the word: stupid.
Today we should not be surprised by this type of garbage and reckless type of leadership coming out of Washington, since there's nothing good coming out of Washington for a long time. The place has become a rotten place with very few people who are able to actually use their brain, one of the few exceptions is Senator Bernie Sanders.
The United States has lost all its credibility around the world regarding economic and financial matters and now the United States is showing that it can also be reckless about its phoney display of military power.
You don't throw fuel into the fire on an explosive situation such as is the case with the North Korean crisis that is underway.
.
SouthAmerica: We have a discussion going on on this subject at Brazzil magazine and here is what I posted today:
Reply to Ederson
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010
Ricardo: On Sunday (December 5, 2010), North Korea gave a warning to the United States and South Korea that the political situation in that area of the world is reaching an uncontrollable level.
***
05/12/2010 - 02h35
âPyongyang adverte Seul e Washington contra novas manobras militaresâ
DA EFE, EM SEUL
Folha de Sao Paulo
A Coreia do Norte advertiu neste domingo Seul e Washington que haverá consequências se foram realizadas novas manobras conjuntas no Mar Amarelo (Mar Ocidental) e assinalou que a situação polÃtica na região está alcançando "um nÃvel incontrolável".
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/m...ares.shtml
*****
Ederson: ...Secondly, I claim mo great knowledge concerning the science of killing people by using the bomb, but I have questioned many times the "what and why" of such a disaster.
*****
Ricardo: When a country decides to use a nuclear warhead the objective is not to kill people â the goal can be something else.
If North Korea attacks Tokyo with multiple nuclear warheads â the main objective is to cause a total collapse of the global international monetary system based on the US dollar.
Forget about nuclear retaliation against North Korea â the people from around the world would cause a major run into the banking system creating a massive implosion of the entire system.
We would have Panic everywhere with massive banking failures, collapsing stock markets, the entire financial system would turn into chaos, with run on supermarkets to get the food that still is available â paper money would become worthless almost immediately after the nuclear weapons attack, and so on.....
At that point who cares if the United States or anyone else retaliates against North Korea, since most of the news would be about the collapsing and imploding economic and financial system.
From the point view of North Korea they would have achieved their goal â the total collapse of the US economy. And the North Koreans have been preparing themselves for the big day for the last 50 years, and finally the opportunity for such a grand finale has arrived â the final showdown with the United States.
*****
Ederson: Ricardo, your first question concerning Japan's defenses. Many people believe that Japan is already a nuclear country. In any event, it is obvious that Japan has both the material to build effective nuclear weapons and the ability. Some estimates state that Japan could go nuclear in as little as a few weeks if its leaders decide to.
*****
Ricardo: I am sure Japan has nuclear weapons capabilities, and I am also sure that Germany has it.
After a North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo, we would have a collapsing economic and financial system around the world, and that would take all the attention from people everywhere when the economic system is collapsing all around of us.
At that point there is so much confusion everywhere that the last thing you want is for a nuclear war to get out of control.
*****
Ederson: Would the Yanks help Japan?
Your scenario concerning 5 or 6 North Korean nukes against Japan is not a worthy first strike on Japan. It will kill untold thousands but in the end, only guarantee the North's destruction by Japan. The Japanese are one of the least likely nations to sit back and take a nuclear strike calmly.
*****
Ricardo: What follows the North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo is irrelevant, since North Korea already has achieved its goal â the economic and financial destruction of the United States.
*****
Ederson: Ricardo. China does not want such a war to happen. The Chinese have invested in North Korea so that it may serve as a bully and a counter to Japan and to a lesser extent Russia and India.
*****
Ricardo: From the North Korean point of view this is an excellent opportunity for David to destroy Goliath â and their mindset is geared for such a occasion and spectacular event.
The leaders of North Korea don't want to end up like Saddam Hussein with a rope around their neck.
They are cornered, being provoked and intimidated, they are going to lose the war anyway â then why not go with a big blast?
That's the way to go....
*****
Ederson: China may not help North Korea in a nuclear battle involving the Yanks. Remember, the Koreans are a proxy of the Chinese and expendable to a point. The Chinese will allow the North Koreans to be taught a lesson, but will not allow them to be invaded, ever.
*****
Ricardo: At that point it does not matter what China thinks the North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo has triggered a massive chain reaction with bank runs and collapse, and stock market meltdowns like never seen before.
The United States financial and economic system is in intensive care right now and this time around the Fed and the US Treasury will be completely powerless to be able to save the system from total collapse.
*****
Ederson: I'm curious. Are there any economists who have written at length or discussed the effects of a post-nuclear conflict? That would be fascinating reading, even if it's only a limited exchange, I should think great walls will come tumbling down.
*****
Ricardo: I am not aware of anybody writing about that subject.
What I wrote above is my guess as I think about the subject. But I have no idea how the world economy would work if we have a sudden collapse of the US dollar as I described above.
I remember reading articles about the Great Hanshin earthquake, or Kobe earthquake, was an earthquake that occurred on Tuesday, January 17, 1995 â the articles said that if such earthquake had occurred in Tokyo that would have triggered the collapse of the US dollar.
These articles were long and described in detail how the earthquake would generate so much damage to the city of Tokyo in turn Japan would need to use its US dollar reserves to reconstruct their country.
***********
Reply to Ederson
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 05, 2010
Ricardo: Ederson, I am glad that you got the main point of the discussion. The comments of all these other guys shows that they did not grasp the core and essence of this conversation.
In my opinion, the United States is playing a reckless game by playing military games and provoking North Korea at a critical time â it is like the US wants North Korea to over-react and go for the final showdown with the United States â that reflect the American âRambo mindsetâ.
If the United States were secure about the image of military superpower that it tries so hard to project around the world, then this childish war games that they are going to play with Japan to provoke North Korea would not be necessary.
But the reality is very different, and we can see how effective US military power is in Afghanistan â basically is nothing to write home about it.
If a country can't show in the battlefield how powerful and effective its Army is, then they have to go for the make believe war games to show on the news around the world how powerful their military is Hollywood style â just a facade, and an artificial or deceptive front.....
These war games that the United States is going to play with Japan is a good definition for the word: stupid.
Today we should not be surprised by this type of garbage and reckless type of leadership coming out of Washington, since there's nothing good coming out of Washington for a long time. The place has become a rotten place with very few people who are able to actually use their brain, one of the few exceptions is Senator Bernie Sanders.
The United States has lost all its credibility around the world regarding economic and financial matters and now the United States is showing that it can also be reckless about its phoney display of military power.
You don't throw fuel into the fire on an explosive situation such as is the case with the North Korean crisis that is underway.
.
December 5, 2010
SouthAmerica: continue from above posting:
Ederson: But you have hit the nail on the head. What it would do to the economy of many nations, if not the world, would be staggering. Just as the incident of 9/11 changed the Yanks and the world, so would such an explosion.
*****
Ricardo: You have the perfect example, look at the damage that 9/11 caused not only to the US economy, but the domino effect that it had around the world.
Basically, 19 guys armed with box cutters almost brought down the entire global economy. And their destruction were minor including a few buildings in Manhattan, and a very small number of human casualties.
Can you imagine the economic and financial devastation to the global economy if 5 or 6 North Korean nuclear warheads land in the center of Tokyo?
The North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo as I described above would have 1,000 times the economic and financial destructive power that 9/11 had on the economic and financial system around the world.
And this time around we already have an economic system that is very vulnerable and in the brink of collapsing by itself by implosion in the United States, and in Europe â the nuclear destruction of Tokyo would trigger an immediate economic and financial destruction of what is left of the economic and financial system that makes the world work.
As soon as the nuclear warheads destroys Tokyo â At that exact minute I have no idea how the economic and financial system of the countries from around the world works. After the total economic and financial meltdown I don't know how we go from there...
The very fragile European economic and financial system would collapse, and the US economic and financial system that still is in critical condition would not survive this massive economic and financial implosion.
.
SouthAmerica: continue from above posting:
Ederson: But you have hit the nail on the head. What it would do to the economy of many nations, if not the world, would be staggering. Just as the incident of 9/11 changed the Yanks and the world, so would such an explosion.
*****
Ricardo: You have the perfect example, look at the damage that 9/11 caused not only to the US economy, but the domino effect that it had around the world.
Basically, 19 guys armed with box cutters almost brought down the entire global economy. And their destruction were minor including a few buildings in Manhattan, and a very small number of human casualties.
Can you imagine the economic and financial devastation to the global economy if 5 or 6 North Korean nuclear warheads land in the center of Tokyo?
The North Korean nuclear weapons attack against Tokyo as I described above would have 1,000 times the economic and financial destructive power that 9/11 had on the economic and financial system around the world.
And this time around we already have an economic system that is very vulnerable and in the brink of collapsing by itself by implosion in the United States, and in Europe â the nuclear destruction of Tokyo would trigger an immediate economic and financial destruction of what is left of the economic and financial system that makes the world work.
As soon as the nuclear warheads destroys Tokyo â At that exact minute I have no idea how the economic and financial system of the countries from around the world works. After the total economic and financial meltdown I don't know how we go from there...
The very fragile European economic and financial system would collapse, and the US economic and financial system that still is in critical condition would not survive this massive economic and financial implosion.
.
Good reason for the US to be in N. Korea's face right now don't you think?
Blow them up before they can go nuclear.
December 8, 2010
SouthAmerica: It is time for a showdown here is why:
U.S. ramps up pressure on China to act on North Korea â December 8, 2010
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/12/07/us.china.north.korea/
In a nutshell:
The United States has a policy of preemptive attack = translation = since that works both ways that forces North Korea to try to beat the US regarding any preemptive attack.
North Korea has been cornered by the United States, South Korea and Japan â and they are all provoking North Korea to take the first step on the preemptive attack game.
The leadership of North Korea knows that they are going to end up like Saddam Hussein anyway, and what is the difference between dying as a result of nuclear war or by being hanged.
Being hanged probably is a more painful way of dying than by an attack with nuclear weapons.
If the North Koreans don't use their nuclear weapons right now under such a heavy degree of provocation from the United States, South Korea and Japan, that means that North Korea does not have nuclear weapons to use it at any time, and it would give a signal to the United States that they can destroy North Korea from the air with minor consequence from any North Korean retaliation.
This is the time for a North Korean nuclear weapons showdown â or they use it at this critical turning point in North Korean history or North Korea better to roll over and play dead for now on.
.
SouthAmerica: It is time for a showdown here is why:
U.S. ramps up pressure on China to act on North Korea â December 8, 2010
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/12/07/us.china.north.korea/
In a nutshell:
The United States has a policy of preemptive attack = translation = since that works both ways that forces North Korea to try to beat the US regarding any preemptive attack.
North Korea has been cornered by the United States, South Korea and Japan â and they are all provoking North Korea to take the first step on the preemptive attack game.
The leadership of North Korea knows that they are going to end up like Saddam Hussein anyway, and what is the difference between dying as a result of nuclear war or by being hanged.
Being hanged probably is a more painful way of dying than by an attack with nuclear weapons.
If the North Koreans don't use their nuclear weapons right now under such a heavy degree of provocation from the United States, South Korea and Japan, that means that North Korea does not have nuclear weapons to use it at any time, and it would give a signal to the United States that they can destroy North Korea from the air with minor consequence from any North Korean retaliation.
This is the time for a North Korean nuclear weapons showdown â or they use it at this critical turning point in North Korean history or North Korea better to roll over and play dead for now on.
.
December 8, 2010
SouthAmerica: CNN reported that: "China should take a leading role in diffusing tensions on the Korean peninsula by warning North Korea there are consequences for its actions, the deputy secretary of state James Steinberg said Tuesday."
But the truth is: After North Korea lands 4 or 5 nuclear warheads in Tokyo the party will be over for everybody, because of the total meltdown of the international monetary system.
These guys don't understand that if North Korea attacks Tokyo with 4 or 5 nuclear warheads that would be the equivalent of David killing Goliath.
My guess is that after such a nuclear attack against Tokyo no country would retaliate against North Korea.
All the major countries around the world would be too busy with their collapsing economic and financial systems to bother with any retaliation.
.
SouthAmerica: CNN reported that: "China should take a leading role in diffusing tensions on the Korean peninsula by warning North Korea there are consequences for its actions, the deputy secretary of state James Steinberg said Tuesday."
But the truth is: After North Korea lands 4 or 5 nuclear warheads in Tokyo the party will be over for everybody, because of the total meltdown of the international monetary system.
These guys don't understand that if North Korea attacks Tokyo with 4 or 5 nuclear warheads that would be the equivalent of David killing Goliath.
My guess is that after such a nuclear attack against Tokyo no country would retaliate against North Korea.
All the major countries around the world would be too busy with their collapsing economic and financial systems to bother with any retaliation.
.
December 8, 2010
SouthAmerica: They are closing the circle on North Korea.
âInternational Criminal Court starting investigation into possible North Korean war crimesâ - Associated Press â December 8, 2010
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...orean-war-crimes/story-e6frf7lf-1225967568625
UNITED NATIONS - The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court says his office is starting a preliminary examination of possible war crimes by North Korea in response to complaints from South Korean students and citizens.
Luis Moreno Ocampo told a news conference Tuesday that no state requested the court's intervention.
But he said in response to communications from South Korean citizens that his office will decide whether a full-scale investigation should be carried out into the Nov. 23 shelling of South Korea's Yeonpyeong Island and the sinking of a South Korean warship in March.
He said his office must determine whether the incidents constitute war crimes, if the court has jurisdiction, and if the South Korean government is taking legal action.
The court is based in The Hague, Netherlands.
.
SouthAmerica: They are closing the circle on North Korea.
âInternational Criminal Court starting investigation into possible North Korean war crimesâ - Associated Press â December 8, 2010
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wo...orean-war-crimes/story-e6frf7lf-1225967568625
UNITED NATIONS - The prosecutor of the International Criminal Court says his office is starting a preliminary examination of possible war crimes by North Korea in response to complaints from South Korean students and citizens.
Luis Moreno Ocampo told a news conference Tuesday that no state requested the court's intervention.
But he said in response to communications from South Korean citizens that his office will decide whether a full-scale investigation should be carried out into the Nov. 23 shelling of South Korea's Yeonpyeong Island and the sinking of a South Korean warship in March.
He said his office must determine whether the incidents constitute war crimes, if the court has jurisdiction, and if the South Korean government is taking legal action.
The court is based in The Hague, Netherlands.
.