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North Korea's Nuclear Weapons
- Thread starter SouthAmerica
- Start date
.
Nick Leeson Jr: YOU ARE PROBABLY RIGHT THE CHINESE DONT NEED YOU FOR ANYTHING, HOWEVER THE TERM USEFUL IDIOT COMES TO MIND
June 25, 2006
SouthAmerica: At least this useful idiot knows what is going on in South America, China and other places â as opposite to some people that thinks that their country Is the only superpower left around the world and they are not aware of what is really happening from a number of perspectives.
The US is becoming obsolete and losing its influence in South America, Africa, and many other places faster than most Americans realized â All you have to do is check the elections results and the left is making a come back everywhere.
The large American corporations are selling out the American system and they are transferring more jobs overseas than the average America are aware of. They are putting the American middle class out of business; one little piece at the time.
The truth is the US is becoming a has been is the eyes of the rest of the world â everybody around the world is watching CNN news cable via satellite and they saw first hand the Katrina fiasco. They know that the US needs to borrow $ 2 billion dollars per day from foreign countries to keep its economy afloat. They know that the American middle class started holding the bag for the big corporations and the wealthiest 1 percent of the US population.
I have a very good grasp on how the Chinese system works â not only in China but also around the world â And I am sure that you are clueless to what is really happening.
The US market is an illusion that can disappear before you can count to 3 â most companies stocks are overpriced and the only way to keep their prices up is to keep a very short supply of companies available for investments. (just check the number of companies listed on The New York Stock Exchange 30 years ago and how many companies are listed today. The same goes for the NASDAQ.
It seems to me that the only way American companies know how to make money is to layoff employees, raid their pension money â various financial groups including Hedge Funds use merge and acquisitions and they restructure sound companies then they take big fees for the fiasco that they are creating then they spin them again into the market; decapitalized, full of debt and in many cases shortly after these companies find themselves in deep financial trouble and they play the same game again at the expense of the middle class and undermining the foundations of the entire system.
You can read what I wrote about China on the internet at the following locations:
âWhile China Rises the US Falls in Brazil and Latin Americaâ
Published on June 2, 2005
http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/9296/76/
May 2005 â âUS and EU are the Past. The future is Brazil and Bricâ
http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/2346/49/
*********************
SouthAmerica: No one will be able to convince me that it was necessary to drop the second atomic bomb in Nagasaki â only 3 days after the first bomb was dropped in Hiroshima. (They did not have CNN satellite television 24/7 in 1945 and it did take time for the news to get around. And they did not give time for the Japanese to check the destruction caused by the first atomic bomb dropped in Hiroshima.)
The second bomb was dropped in Nagasaki as a test because the two bombs had a different design and they wanted to test which design created more destruction.
The USA killed over 115,000 people in Nagasaki in 1945 â mostly women, children, and senior citizens just to test a very destructive nuclear weapon.
There is no rational reason that I know of that could justify the dropping of the second atomic bomb in Nagasaki.
Nick Leeson Jr: EXCEPT THAT IT WAS DURING A WAR
SouthAmerica: You are always rationalizing things even the worst things in the world â you probably donât know the difference of what is acceptable and what is completely wrong under any circumstance such as kill over 115,000 people in Nagasaki in 1945 â mostly women, children, and senior citizens just to test a very destructive nuclear weapon. â KILL 115,000 MOSTLY WOMEN, CHILDREN, AND SENIOR CITIZENS - Just to test a weapon.
Here is your humanity?
Maybe your brain trained in a culture of war (not only the actual ones such as WW II, Korea War, Vietnam, Iraq Part I, Iraq Part II, and many others plus the glorification of war on American films) I am surprised that you canât tell the difference between what is right and wrong.
Last Friday June 23, 2006 The New York Times published an article by Alex Vernon â âThe Road From My Laiâ and the article said:
Apologists for My Lai â and presumably future apologists for Iraq atrocities â are quick to lecture: Thatâs war, buddy. You should see what the other guy does. I object to this argument because it smells like rationalization. It permits us to accept the unacceptable. It resists aspiring to a better way. The very idea of âwartime atrocitiesâ is a 20th-century development, the most progressive and hopeful legacy of the worldâs bloodiest century.
â¦Despite the calls to prosecute up the chain of command (indeed, up to President Bush himself) for the alleged crimes in Iraqâ¦â¦
The article continues, but I hope you got the point.
***********************
Nick Leeson Jr: TWO OTHER NATIONS THAT ARE NOT PLEASED ARE SOUTH KOREA AND TAIWAN, THOUGH I SUPPOSE THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO YOU. INFACT I SUSPECT THE ENTIRE FREE WORLD IS NOT HAPPY WITH NORTH KOREAS TEST FIRE OF A MISSLE. ONLY CHINA, NORTH KOREA AND IRAN ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY ONES PLEASED. SAD.
SouthAmerica: You are completely wrong that the entire free world cares about the US/Iran and the US/North Korea nuclear crisis.
Nobody in South America cares if Iran and North Korea have nuclear weapons â they have better things to do with their time.
**********************
Nick Leeson Jr: FINE, THEN NAME ONE POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION OF NORTH KOREA TO HUMANITY. JUST ONE IS FINE.
SouthAmerica: Korea was invaded and ruled by Japan from 1910 until the end of World War II in 1945. On August 6, the Soviet Union, in keeping with an arrangement made with the United States government, declared war on the Japanese Empire and on August 8 entered Korea from the north. President Harry S Truman ordered the landing of U.S. troops in the south.
On August 10, 1945 with the Japanese surrender imminent, the United States and the Soviet Union agreed to divide Korea along the 38th parallel, and that Japanese forces north of that line would surrender to the Soviet Union, those south to the United States - the peninsula was effectively divided into zones of control in the north and south under the administration of the two major powers. The US did not consider this to be a permanent partition.
In December 1945, the US and the Soviet Union agreed to administer the country temporarily. Both countries established governments in their respective halves, each one favorable to their political ideology.
The United States was never able to win the Korean War in the 1950âs and officially the US still in a stand off with North Korea to this day. The Korean War, from June 25, 1950 until a cease-fire took effect on July 27, 1953 - the war has not officially ended as yet â the Korean War started as a civil war between North Korea and South Korea.- since that time the US had to keep over 50,000 US troops year after year in the Korean Peninsula because of the 54 year stand off.
One positive thing to come up from this 54 year stand off is that 50,000 US soldiers living in South Korea must have injected Billions and Billions of US dollars into the South Korean economy helping in the way to bring some prosperity to the South Korean people and their economy - at the expense of the American tax payers.
If the US had the capability of winning that war then we might not have the US/North Korean crisis today.
The US is getting in the habit of losing wars: Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and at the same time that the US is losing all these efforts it is costing the American taxpayer their shirt.
I could list here all the costs in money and lives, in family hardship and so on of all these lost causes.
I guess when you have been wired for the war mentality â then you lose the sense and reason and good judgment.
*************************
SouthAmerica: I donât think North Korea has been buying armament from the United States.
But you can bet that most of the killings that goes on around the world in all kinds of conflicts and civil wars â in Africa, in Europe, in Asia, in the Middle East, in South America - they are using all kinds of armaments made in America.
Nick Leeson Jr: NO YOU ARE RIGHT NORTH KOREA DID NOT BUY ANY ARMAMENT FROM THE US, INSTEAD THE US GOVT (CLINTION ADMINISTRATION) GAVE THE NORTH KOREANS A NUCLEAR REACTOR, SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSANDS OF BARRELS OF OIL, AND SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSANDS OF TONS OF FOOD. WITH THIS, THE NORTH KOREANS MADE AN ATOMIC BOMB, AND USED THE OIL AND FOOD TO FUEL THEIR ARMY TO ANTAGONIZE SOUTH KOREA AND FURTHER STARVE ON THEIR OWN POPULATION. AINT SOCIALISM GRAND.
YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION, WHAT ARE ALL THESE SUPERIOR, MORE MATURE, PEACE LOVING NATIONS DOING WITH ALL THE ARMAMENT PURCHASED FROM THE US?
SouthAmerica: Yesterday, CNN News was showing some interesting figures about the armament that the US peddles around the world in the industry of death.
They said that today there are over 640 million machine guns and other arms around the world and the death industry sells over 8 million of their deadly toys per year.
They also said that they estimated that more than 127,000 Iraqi civilians had been kill in Iraq since the US invaded that country in 2003.
.
Nick Leeson Jr: YOU ARE PROBABLY RIGHT THE CHINESE DONT NEED YOU FOR ANYTHING, HOWEVER THE TERM USEFUL IDIOT COMES TO MIND
June 25, 2006
SouthAmerica: At least this useful idiot knows what is going on in South America, China and other places â as opposite to some people that thinks that their country Is the only superpower left around the world and they are not aware of what is really happening from a number of perspectives.
The US is becoming obsolete and losing its influence in South America, Africa, and many other places faster than most Americans realized â All you have to do is check the elections results and the left is making a come back everywhere.
The large American corporations are selling out the American system and they are transferring more jobs overseas than the average America are aware of. They are putting the American middle class out of business; one little piece at the time.
The truth is the US is becoming a has been is the eyes of the rest of the world â everybody around the world is watching CNN news cable via satellite and they saw first hand the Katrina fiasco. They know that the US needs to borrow $ 2 billion dollars per day from foreign countries to keep its economy afloat. They know that the American middle class started holding the bag for the big corporations and the wealthiest 1 percent of the US population.
I have a very good grasp on how the Chinese system works â not only in China but also around the world â And I am sure that you are clueless to what is really happening.
The US market is an illusion that can disappear before you can count to 3 â most companies stocks are overpriced and the only way to keep their prices up is to keep a very short supply of companies available for investments. (just check the number of companies listed on The New York Stock Exchange 30 years ago and how many companies are listed today. The same goes for the NASDAQ.
It seems to me that the only way American companies know how to make money is to layoff employees, raid their pension money â various financial groups including Hedge Funds use merge and acquisitions and they restructure sound companies then they take big fees for the fiasco that they are creating then they spin them again into the market; decapitalized, full of debt and in many cases shortly after these companies find themselves in deep financial trouble and they play the same game again at the expense of the middle class and undermining the foundations of the entire system.
You can read what I wrote about China on the internet at the following locations:
âWhile China Rises the US Falls in Brazil and Latin Americaâ
Published on June 2, 2005
http://www.brazzil.com/content/view/9296/76/
May 2005 â âUS and EU are the Past. The future is Brazil and Bricâ
http://www.brazzilmag.com/content/view/2346/49/
*********************
SouthAmerica: No one will be able to convince me that it was necessary to drop the second atomic bomb in Nagasaki â only 3 days after the first bomb was dropped in Hiroshima. (They did not have CNN satellite television 24/7 in 1945 and it did take time for the news to get around. And they did not give time for the Japanese to check the destruction caused by the first atomic bomb dropped in Hiroshima.)
The second bomb was dropped in Nagasaki as a test because the two bombs had a different design and they wanted to test which design created more destruction.
The USA killed over 115,000 people in Nagasaki in 1945 â mostly women, children, and senior citizens just to test a very destructive nuclear weapon.
There is no rational reason that I know of that could justify the dropping of the second atomic bomb in Nagasaki.
Nick Leeson Jr: EXCEPT THAT IT WAS DURING A WAR
SouthAmerica: You are always rationalizing things even the worst things in the world â you probably donât know the difference of what is acceptable and what is completely wrong under any circumstance such as kill over 115,000 people in Nagasaki in 1945 â mostly women, children, and senior citizens just to test a very destructive nuclear weapon. â KILL 115,000 MOSTLY WOMEN, CHILDREN, AND SENIOR CITIZENS - Just to test a weapon.
Here is your humanity?
Maybe your brain trained in a culture of war (not only the actual ones such as WW II, Korea War, Vietnam, Iraq Part I, Iraq Part II, and many others plus the glorification of war on American films) I am surprised that you canât tell the difference between what is right and wrong.
Last Friday June 23, 2006 The New York Times published an article by Alex Vernon â âThe Road From My Laiâ and the article said:
Apologists for My Lai â and presumably future apologists for Iraq atrocities â are quick to lecture: Thatâs war, buddy. You should see what the other guy does. I object to this argument because it smells like rationalization. It permits us to accept the unacceptable. It resists aspiring to a better way. The very idea of âwartime atrocitiesâ is a 20th-century development, the most progressive and hopeful legacy of the worldâs bloodiest century.
â¦Despite the calls to prosecute up the chain of command (indeed, up to President Bush himself) for the alleged crimes in Iraqâ¦â¦
The article continues, but I hope you got the point.
***********************
Nick Leeson Jr: TWO OTHER NATIONS THAT ARE NOT PLEASED ARE SOUTH KOREA AND TAIWAN, THOUGH I SUPPOSE THAT DOESN'T MATTER TO YOU. INFACT I SUSPECT THE ENTIRE FREE WORLD IS NOT HAPPY WITH NORTH KOREAS TEST FIRE OF A MISSLE. ONLY CHINA, NORTH KOREA AND IRAN ARE PROBABLY THE ONLY ONES PLEASED. SAD.
SouthAmerica: You are completely wrong that the entire free world cares about the US/Iran and the US/North Korea nuclear crisis.
Nobody in South America cares if Iran and North Korea have nuclear weapons â they have better things to do with their time.
**********************
Nick Leeson Jr: FINE, THEN NAME ONE POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION OF NORTH KOREA TO HUMANITY. JUST ONE IS FINE.
SouthAmerica: Korea was invaded and ruled by Japan from 1910 until the end of World War II in 1945. On August 6, the Soviet Union, in keeping with an arrangement made with the United States government, declared war on the Japanese Empire and on August 8 entered Korea from the north. President Harry S Truman ordered the landing of U.S. troops in the south.
On August 10, 1945 with the Japanese surrender imminent, the United States and the Soviet Union agreed to divide Korea along the 38th parallel, and that Japanese forces north of that line would surrender to the Soviet Union, those south to the United States - the peninsula was effectively divided into zones of control in the north and south under the administration of the two major powers. The US did not consider this to be a permanent partition.
In December 1945, the US and the Soviet Union agreed to administer the country temporarily. Both countries established governments in their respective halves, each one favorable to their political ideology.
The United States was never able to win the Korean War in the 1950âs and officially the US still in a stand off with North Korea to this day. The Korean War, from June 25, 1950 until a cease-fire took effect on July 27, 1953 - the war has not officially ended as yet â the Korean War started as a civil war between North Korea and South Korea.- since that time the US had to keep over 50,000 US troops year after year in the Korean Peninsula because of the 54 year stand off.
One positive thing to come up from this 54 year stand off is that 50,000 US soldiers living in South Korea must have injected Billions and Billions of US dollars into the South Korean economy helping in the way to bring some prosperity to the South Korean people and their economy - at the expense of the American tax payers.
If the US had the capability of winning that war then we might not have the US/North Korean crisis today.
The US is getting in the habit of losing wars: Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and at the same time that the US is losing all these efforts it is costing the American taxpayer their shirt.
I could list here all the costs in money and lives, in family hardship and so on of all these lost causes.
I guess when you have been wired for the war mentality â then you lose the sense and reason and good judgment.
*************************
SouthAmerica: I donât think North Korea has been buying armament from the United States.
But you can bet that most of the killings that goes on around the world in all kinds of conflicts and civil wars â in Africa, in Europe, in Asia, in the Middle East, in South America - they are using all kinds of armaments made in America.
Nick Leeson Jr: NO YOU ARE RIGHT NORTH KOREA DID NOT BUY ANY ARMAMENT FROM THE US, INSTEAD THE US GOVT (CLINTION ADMINISTRATION) GAVE THE NORTH KOREANS A NUCLEAR REACTOR, SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSANDS OF BARRELS OF OIL, AND SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSANDS OF TONS OF FOOD. WITH THIS, THE NORTH KOREANS MADE AN ATOMIC BOMB, AND USED THE OIL AND FOOD TO FUEL THEIR ARMY TO ANTAGONIZE SOUTH KOREA AND FURTHER STARVE ON THEIR OWN POPULATION. AINT SOCIALISM GRAND.
YOU DIDN'T ANSWER MY QUESTION, WHAT ARE ALL THESE SUPERIOR, MORE MATURE, PEACE LOVING NATIONS DOING WITH ALL THE ARMAMENT PURCHASED FROM THE US?
SouthAmerica: Yesterday, CNN News was showing some interesting figures about the armament that the US peddles around the world in the industry of death.
They said that today there are over 640 million machine guns and other arms around the world and the death industry sells over 8 million of their deadly toys per year.
They also said that they estimated that more than 127,000 Iraqi civilians had been kill in Iraq since the US invaded that country in 2003.
.
Quote from southamerica:
The truth is the US is becoming a has been is the eyes of the rest of the world â everybody around the world is watching CNN news cable via satellite and they saw first hand the Katrina fiasco. They know that the US needs to borrow $ 2 billion dollars per day from foreign countries to keep its economy afloat. They know that the American middle class started holding the bag for the big corporations and the wealthiest 1 percent of the US population.
You're right on this one ... all the more reason for the US govt to cancel all foreign aid and disaster relief funding and start spending the $$ here.
SouthAmerica: No one will be able to convince me that it was necessary to drop the second atomic bomb in Nagasaki â only 3 days after the first bomb was dropped in Hiroshima. (They did not have CNN satellite television 24/7 in 1945 and it did take time for the news to get around. And they did not give time for the Japanese to check the destruction caused by the first atomic bomb dropped in Hiroshima.)[/quote]
Neither you nor I are anyone whose convincing needs to be petitioned on this matter. We are not privy to any of the evidence examined nor the conditions existing at the time the decision was made.
The second bomb was dropped in Nagasaki as a test because the two bombs had a different design and they wanted to test which design created more destruction.
The USA killed over 115,000 people in Nagasaki in 1945 â mostly women, children, and senior citizens just to test a very destructive nuclear weapon.
There is no rational reason that I know of that could justify the dropping of the second atomic bomb in Nagasaki.[/quote]
You lose sight of the fact that in war, the goal is ... and should be ... as quick a victory as possible at all costs. You seem to subscribe to a doctrine of victory, but with rules of engagement - and that doctrine is what cost the US the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam ... and is costing us in Iraq as well. War is not a sport with rules. Bad things are done by people on both sides of the conflict ... things that are meant to put fear and terror into the hearts of an enemy in an effort to destroy their will to fight. With the brutality the Japanese inflicted upon their enemies, there is no rational reason that I know of that could justify NOT having blanketed the entire island with more 'tests'.
Apologists for My Lai â and presumably future apologists for Iraq atrocities â are quick to lecture: Thatâs war, buddy. You should see what the other guy does. I object to this argument because it smells like rationalization. It permits us to accept the unacceptable. It resists aspiring to a better way. The very idea of âwartime atrocitiesâ is a 20th-century development, the most progressive and hopeful legacy of the worldâs bloodiest century.[/quote]
Our courts allow the worst of criminals a consideration for mitigating circimstances that you refuse to offer to those involved in these incidents. And what I find to be amazing is the fact that by your silence, you seem to approve of the atorcities commited by those the US has met on the battlefield. Interesting. Interesting that you pass judgement from the comfort of your livingroom, far away from the smells, sounds and noise of war and the stench of death. From your comfortable vantage point, you are unable to appreciate the concussions of nearby explosions, hear the wizz of bullets just missing your head nor feel the spray from the innards of your bootcamp-mate as his body is mangled by a mortar ... week after week, month after month ... you don't experience the well of emotion when you round a corner and find your corporal lying on the floor with his feet and hands bound, disembowled, and his head ... his head gazing at you from the other side of the room. Now ... some people can endure all these experiences suffering no ill effects. But others might suffer a level of trauma that could result in actions unbecoming the 'all-American boy'. That may be difficult for you to comprehend as you ponder the possibilities from your chaise ...
Nobody in South America cares if Iran and North Korea have nuclear weapons â they have better things to do with their time.[/quote]
Boy ... you're right on this one, too !!! Just as certain SA countries stayed neutral during WWII, allowing the Nazis safe harbor for refueling and resupplying their battle groups. And naturally, if Germany had been victorious, Adolf would have embraced his SA friends in deepest appreciation.
In the eyes of NK and Iran, SA poses no threat. SA is content to let the rest of the world act to stop terrorism and prevent rogue govts from obtaining the means to hold the world hostage.
SouthAmerica: Yesterday, CNN News was showing some interesting figures about the armament that the US peddles around the world in the industry of death.
They said that today there are over 640 million machine guns and other arms around the world and the death industry sells over 8 million of their deadly toys per year.[/quote]
So you're saying that we're supplying 1.25% per year ?? WOW!!!
Or are you saying that the AK47, the most used and most prolific machinegun in the world ... is made by the US ??? Eh ???
I hate to tell you ... but ... all those guns aren't killing people by themselves. Other people are squeezing the triggers. Irresponsible people. And irresponsible people are trying to develop nuclear weapons and delivery systems as we speak. Your concern for the ways they have used their smaller 'deadly toys' as expressed above does not manifest itself with concern for the bigger 'deadly toys' to which they aspire ... old boy.
.
June 26, 2006
Quote from southamerica:
The truth is the US is becoming a has been is the eyes of the rest of the world â everybody around the world is watching CNN news cable via satellite and they saw first hand the Katrina fiasco. They know that the US needs to borrow $ 2 billion dollars per day from foreign countries to keep its economy afloat. They know that the American middle class started holding the bag for the big corporations and the wealthiest 1 percent of the US population.
g222: You're right on this one ... all the more reason for the US govt to cancel all foreign aid and disaster relief funding and start spending the $$ here.
SouthAmerica: Last week I was surfing the channels and I saw Henry Kissinger being interviewed by Charlie Rose. I did watch for awhile the interview and when Charlie asked Kissinger to give an example of something that makes him worry about US foreign policy â Kissinger said: âHe is worried about how there are many new groups in Asia that meet of a regular basis â groups similar to the G8 â and the Asians countries have these meetings and they donât invite the US to attend or participate even as a guest. The same is true for meetings between the Arab countries and Latin America countries; when they have their meetings they exclude the United States.
It is happening all over the US is losing its influence and clout at the speed of light.
***********************
g222: And what I find to be amazing is the fact that by your silence, you seem to approve of the atorcities commited by those the US has met on the battlefield. Interesting. Interesting that you pass judgment from the comfort of your livingroom, far away from the smells, sounds and noise of war and the stench of death. From your comfortable vantage point, you are unable to appreciate the concussions of nearby explosions, hear the wizz of bullets just missing your head nor feel the spray from the innards of your bootcamp-mate as his body is mangled by a mortar ... week after week, month after month ... you don't experience the well of emotion when you round a corner and find your corporal lying on the floor with his feet and hands bound, disembowled, and his head ... his head gazing at you from the other side of the room. Now ... some people can endure all these experiences suffering no ill effects. But others might suffer a level of trauma that could result in actions unbecoming the 'all-American boy'.
SouthAmerica: No I donât approve atrocities by any side and in any form.
I believe in being civilized and staying above the people who are doing these atrocities. If you start doing the same thing that they are doing including atrocities then at that point anything goes and you canât cry fault because of anything that your enemies are doing to you.
The Geneva Conventions were created and signed by most countries â not to prevent you from doing atrocities but to prevent that your enemy do atrocities to your own soldiers â Following the guidelines of the Geneva Conventions is a good way to protect your own army and your own soldiers.
If you think that anything is fine and can be excused because you are at war â then I am sorry for you since you open the door for the enemy to commit atrocities against your soldiers â for example the two American soldiers who were tortured by the US enemies in Iraq and their bodies were mutilated last week â In my opinion that is completely unacceptable even during a war.
There are limits even in war to what âcivilized peopleâ can do to each other.
************************
g222: ou lose sight of the fact that in war, the goal is ... and should be ... as quick a victory as possible at all costs. You seem to subscribe to a doctrine of victory, but with rules of engagement - and that doctrine is what cost the US the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam ... and is costing us in Iraq as well. War is not a sport with rules. Bad things are done by people on both sides of the conflict ... things that are meant to put fear and terror into the hearts of an enemy in an effort to destroy their will to fight. With the brutality the Japanese inflicted upon their enemies, there is no rational reason that I know of that could justify NOT having blanketed the entire island with more 'tests'.
SouthAmerica: I am not a war-monger. I am not in favor of wars â almost any war.
There are some exceptions - someone brought Bill Clintonâs name to this conversation and they try to compare him with Bush â The Moron.
You canât compare what Bill Clinton was trying to do in Serbia with what The Moron is doing in Iraq. Bill Clinton was trying to stop a major genocide that was going on in Serbia at that time. Bill Clinton had nothing to gain from helping thousands and thousands of poor people who were being slaughtered by the Serbian Army. (There were no OIL deals after that war ended to give fabulous contracts to his pals and corporations).
Bill Clintonâs war in Serbia was a humanitarian effort. And Bill Clinton is sorry that he did not respond sooner to the same thing that was going on in Rwanda when they also had a major genocide in the mid 1990âs. (In that case there was also nothing to be gained by the US other than know that you were doing the right thing.)
***********************
g222: Boy ... you're right on this one, too !!! Just as certain SA countries stayed neutral during WWII, allowing the Nazis safe harbor for refueling and resupplying their battle groups. And naturally, if Germany had been victorious, Adolf would have embraced his SA friends in deepest appreciation.
In the eyes of NK and Iran, SA poses no threat. SA is content to let the rest of the world act to stop terrorism and prevent rogue govts from obtaining the means to hold the world hostage.
SouthAmerica: Today the US government is indoctrinating the American people that any group that is fighting against any government for any reason around the world â Americans generalize so much that every group - became a terrorist group.
In history we always had a thousand groups around the world fighting with their governments for one reason or another. In the eyes of the American people everybody became a terrorist overnight.
In Colombia they have been fighting a nasty civil war for over 30 years â and most Americans did not even know where Colombia was located in the map. But In the last 6 or 7 years they did find oil in Colombia â and suddenly Colombia appears in the US map and one of the groups fighting in that civil war became overnight a terrorist group. And Americans use the same logic when they look around the world.
During WW II Brazil was in the side of Germany/Italy until half way the war â then Brazil became an ally of the US/UK and so onâ¦..
Brazil has never interfered in the internal affairs of Iran or North Korea. Brazil has nothing to fear from them because Brazil never try to overthrow the Iranian government as the US did in 1953 â or got involved in an internal civil war as was the case in Korea in 1950.
The US put itâs nose on everybodyâs business around the world and when they attack the US in some kind of retaliation - then Americans say: they are doing that because they are jealous of us.
South America including Brazil does not care about the US/Iran and US/North Korea nuclear crisis because there is no reason for them to attack Brazil or any other South American country.
*********************
g222: So you're saying that we're supplying 1.25% per year ?? WOW!!!
Or are you saying that the AK47, the most used and most prolific machinegun in the world ... is made by the US ??? Eh ???
I hate to tell you ... but ... all those guns aren't killing people by themselves. Other people are squeezing the triggers. Irresponsible people. And irresponsible people are trying to develop nuclear weapons and delivery systems as we speak. Your concern for the ways they have used their smaller 'deadly toys' as expressed above does not manifest itself with concern for the bigger 'deadly toys' to which they aspire ... old boy.
SouthAmerica: CNN News did not give the breakdown and type of the armament and which country manufactured them.
I heard many times your argument â arms donât kill people â people kill people - Irresponsible people kill people.
Then we can say that your logic is also true for nuclear weapons.
You are trying to imply that the US just sell all kinds of armaments for responsible people?
For example: Saddam Hussein comes to mind â a good friend of the United States for many years â and regarding the gas he used on the Iranians and Kurds â the US has a very good idea of how much he had since American corporations had the bill of sell.
Osama Bin Ladden also was very well trained by the CIA in Afghanistan in the 1980âs â They did a very good job not only in preparing him to be a world-class terrorist but also they turned him into a legend â the man who put the US to its knees.
.
June 26, 2006
Quote from southamerica:
The truth is the US is becoming a has been is the eyes of the rest of the world â everybody around the world is watching CNN news cable via satellite and they saw first hand the Katrina fiasco. They know that the US needs to borrow $ 2 billion dollars per day from foreign countries to keep its economy afloat. They know that the American middle class started holding the bag for the big corporations and the wealthiest 1 percent of the US population.
g222: You're right on this one ... all the more reason for the US govt to cancel all foreign aid and disaster relief funding and start spending the $$ here.
SouthAmerica: Last week I was surfing the channels and I saw Henry Kissinger being interviewed by Charlie Rose. I did watch for awhile the interview and when Charlie asked Kissinger to give an example of something that makes him worry about US foreign policy â Kissinger said: âHe is worried about how there are many new groups in Asia that meet of a regular basis â groups similar to the G8 â and the Asians countries have these meetings and they donât invite the US to attend or participate even as a guest. The same is true for meetings between the Arab countries and Latin America countries; when they have their meetings they exclude the United States.
It is happening all over the US is losing its influence and clout at the speed of light.
***********************
g222: And what I find to be amazing is the fact that by your silence, you seem to approve of the atorcities commited by those the US has met on the battlefield. Interesting. Interesting that you pass judgment from the comfort of your livingroom, far away from the smells, sounds and noise of war and the stench of death. From your comfortable vantage point, you are unable to appreciate the concussions of nearby explosions, hear the wizz of bullets just missing your head nor feel the spray from the innards of your bootcamp-mate as his body is mangled by a mortar ... week after week, month after month ... you don't experience the well of emotion when you round a corner and find your corporal lying on the floor with his feet and hands bound, disembowled, and his head ... his head gazing at you from the other side of the room. Now ... some people can endure all these experiences suffering no ill effects. But others might suffer a level of trauma that could result in actions unbecoming the 'all-American boy'.
SouthAmerica: No I donât approve atrocities by any side and in any form.
I believe in being civilized and staying above the people who are doing these atrocities. If you start doing the same thing that they are doing including atrocities then at that point anything goes and you canât cry fault because of anything that your enemies are doing to you.
The Geneva Conventions were created and signed by most countries â not to prevent you from doing atrocities but to prevent that your enemy do atrocities to your own soldiers â Following the guidelines of the Geneva Conventions is a good way to protect your own army and your own soldiers.
If you think that anything is fine and can be excused because you are at war â then I am sorry for you since you open the door for the enemy to commit atrocities against your soldiers â for example the two American soldiers who were tortured by the US enemies in Iraq and their bodies were mutilated last week â In my opinion that is completely unacceptable even during a war.
There are limits even in war to what âcivilized peopleâ can do to each other.
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g222: ou lose sight of the fact that in war, the goal is ... and should be ... as quick a victory as possible at all costs. You seem to subscribe to a doctrine of victory, but with rules of engagement - and that doctrine is what cost the US the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam ... and is costing us in Iraq as well. War is not a sport with rules. Bad things are done by people on both sides of the conflict ... things that are meant to put fear and terror into the hearts of an enemy in an effort to destroy their will to fight. With the brutality the Japanese inflicted upon their enemies, there is no rational reason that I know of that could justify NOT having blanketed the entire island with more 'tests'.
SouthAmerica: I am not a war-monger. I am not in favor of wars â almost any war.
There are some exceptions - someone brought Bill Clintonâs name to this conversation and they try to compare him with Bush â The Moron.
You canât compare what Bill Clinton was trying to do in Serbia with what The Moron is doing in Iraq. Bill Clinton was trying to stop a major genocide that was going on in Serbia at that time. Bill Clinton had nothing to gain from helping thousands and thousands of poor people who were being slaughtered by the Serbian Army. (There were no OIL deals after that war ended to give fabulous contracts to his pals and corporations).
Bill Clintonâs war in Serbia was a humanitarian effort. And Bill Clinton is sorry that he did not respond sooner to the same thing that was going on in Rwanda when they also had a major genocide in the mid 1990âs. (In that case there was also nothing to be gained by the US other than know that you were doing the right thing.)
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g222: Boy ... you're right on this one, too !!! Just as certain SA countries stayed neutral during WWII, allowing the Nazis safe harbor for refueling and resupplying their battle groups. And naturally, if Germany had been victorious, Adolf would have embraced his SA friends in deepest appreciation.
In the eyes of NK and Iran, SA poses no threat. SA is content to let the rest of the world act to stop terrorism and prevent rogue govts from obtaining the means to hold the world hostage.
SouthAmerica: Today the US government is indoctrinating the American people that any group that is fighting against any government for any reason around the world â Americans generalize so much that every group - became a terrorist group.
In history we always had a thousand groups around the world fighting with their governments for one reason or another. In the eyes of the American people everybody became a terrorist overnight.
In Colombia they have been fighting a nasty civil war for over 30 years â and most Americans did not even know where Colombia was located in the map. But In the last 6 or 7 years they did find oil in Colombia â and suddenly Colombia appears in the US map and one of the groups fighting in that civil war became overnight a terrorist group. And Americans use the same logic when they look around the world.
During WW II Brazil was in the side of Germany/Italy until half way the war â then Brazil became an ally of the US/UK and so onâ¦..
Brazil has never interfered in the internal affairs of Iran or North Korea. Brazil has nothing to fear from them because Brazil never try to overthrow the Iranian government as the US did in 1953 â or got involved in an internal civil war as was the case in Korea in 1950.
The US put itâs nose on everybodyâs business around the world and when they attack the US in some kind of retaliation - then Americans say: they are doing that because they are jealous of us.
South America including Brazil does not care about the US/Iran and US/North Korea nuclear crisis because there is no reason for them to attack Brazil or any other South American country.
*********************
g222: So you're saying that we're supplying 1.25% per year ?? WOW!!!
Or are you saying that the AK47, the most used and most prolific machinegun in the world ... is made by the US ??? Eh ???
I hate to tell you ... but ... all those guns aren't killing people by themselves. Other people are squeezing the triggers. Irresponsible people. And irresponsible people are trying to develop nuclear weapons and delivery systems as we speak. Your concern for the ways they have used their smaller 'deadly toys' as expressed above does not manifest itself with concern for the bigger 'deadly toys' to which they aspire ... old boy.
SouthAmerica: CNN News did not give the breakdown and type of the armament and which country manufactured them.
I heard many times your argument â arms donât kill people â people kill people - Irresponsible people kill people.
Then we can say that your logic is also true for nuclear weapons.
You are trying to imply that the US just sell all kinds of armaments for responsible people?
For example: Saddam Hussein comes to mind â a good friend of the United States for many years â and regarding the gas he used on the Iranians and Kurds â the US has a very good idea of how much he had since American corporations had the bill of sell.
Osama Bin Ladden also was very well trained by the CIA in Afghanistan in the 1980âs â They did a very good job not only in preparing him to be a world-class terrorist but also they turned him into a legend â the man who put the US to its knees.
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Quote from southamerica:
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June 26, 2006
Quote from southamerica:
SouthAmerica: You canât compare what Bill Clinton was trying to do in Serbia with what The Moron is doing in Iraq.
NOT DIRECTLY, BUT THERE ARE DEFINATE PARALLELS, FOR ONE: AS I MENTIONED, BOTH WARS HAD THE DISAPPROVAL OF THE UN.
SouthAmerica: Bill Clinton was trying to stop a major genocide that was going on in Serbia at that time.
RIGHT, ALL OF THOSE MASS GRAVES, AND THOUSANDS OF DEAD BODIES FOUND . . .
SouthAmerica: Bill Clinton had nothing to gain from helping thousands and thousands of poor people who were being slaughtered by the Serbian Army. (There were no OIL deals after that war ended to give fabulous contracts to his pals and corporations).
HE HAD A LOT TO GAIN, IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR CLAIM THAT THE NK MISSILE LAUNCH IS A DIVERSION, SO WAS THE KOSOVO WAR, BECAUSE AS IT SEEMS AT THE TIME CLINTON THE "GENTLEMAN AND REAL STATESMAN" WAS IN SOME TROUBLE FOR LYING UNDER OATH ABOUT WHY HIS SEMEN WAS ALL OVER SOME WOMAN'S (NOT HIS WIFES) DRESS. CLINTON THE GENTLEMAN . . .
I HAVE ALSO HEARD A LOT ABOUT OIL DETERMINING THE US INVOLVEMENT IN THE KOSOVO WAR, THOUGH I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING ABOUT IT ON THE CNN WEBSITE . . .
AND WHAT HAS BUSH GAINED BY INVADING IRAQ??
SouthAmerica: Bill Clintonâs war in Serbia was a humanitarian effort.
GOOD ONE, TELL THAT TO THE SERBIANS AND THEIR FAMILIES WHO LOST THEIR LIVES, AND ALSO THE KOSOVO REFUGEES BOMBED BY MISTAKE, AS WELL AS THE CHINESE JOURNALISTS KILLED.
SouthAmerica: And Bill Clinton is sorry that he did not respond sooner to the same thing that was going on in Rwanda when they also had a major genocide in the mid 1990âs. (In that case there was also nothing to be gained by the US other than know that you were doing the right thing.)
I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT, AND IF CLINTON EVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT IT, IT WAS PURE LIP SERVICE, WHICH YOU BOUGHT HOOK LINE AND SINKER.
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SouthAmerica: Osama Bin Ladden also was very well trained by the CIA in Afghanistan in the 1980âs â They did a very good job not only in preparing him to be a world-class terrorist but also they turned him into a legend â the man who put the US to its knees.
I GUESS I MISSED THE US BEING PUT TO ITS KNEES BY OSAMA BIN LADEN, WHEN WAS THIS?
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.
June 29, 2006
SouthAmerica: Bill Clinton had nothing to gain from helping thousands and thousands of poor people who were being slaughtered by the Serbian Army. (There were no OIL deals after that war ended to give fabulous contracts to his pals and corporations).
Nick Leeson Jr: HE HAD A LOT TO GAIN, IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR CLAIM THAT THE NK MISSILE LAUNCH IS A DIVERSION, SO WAS THE KOSOVO WAR, BECAUSE AS IT SEEMS AT THE TIME CLINTON THE "GENTLEMAN AND REAL STATESMAN" WAS IN SOME TROUBLE FOR LYING UNDER OATH ABOUT WHY HIS SEMEN WAS ALL OVER SOME WOMAN'S (NOT HIS WIFES) DRESS. CLINTON THE GENTLEMAN . . .
I HAVE ALSO HEARD A LOT ABOUT OIL DETERMINING THE US INVOLVEMENT IN THE KOSOVO WAR, THOUGH I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING ABOUT IT ON THE CNN WEBSITE . . .
AND WHAT HAS BUSH GAINED BY INVADING IRAQ??
SouthAmerica: How many Americans and foreigners for that matter were wounded or got killed because of Bill Clintonâs blowjob?
As far as I know "Zero" people were wounded or killed (She got a stain on her dress) â and I hope Bill had a good time.
The current issue of one of the tabloids on the supermarket has a front page story saying that Bushâs wife is pissed with him because he is having an affair with Condi Rice. (I donât know if that story is really true â if it is true then Bush must be in very bad shape when comes to sex and in my opinion he has a bad taste for women.)
Bill Clinton is another story â he has a decent taste for women, Jennifer Flowers comes to mind â I thought she was a very attractive woman.
But Condi Rice â please give me a break.
On Bushâs War in Iraq almost 3,000 Americans have died and 19,000 have been wounded very badly.
When we compare the two:
In one side we have Clintonâs blowjob â which most of the world could care less about it â and many men around the world might even be jealous of Clinton â because he got a blowjob by a twenty-year old pretty decent looking girl.
In the other side we have George W. Bush (The Moron) responsible for the death of over 3,000 Americans and over 19,000 seriously wounded American soldiers.
What the Bush Clan has to gain from the Iraq war?
First the Bush Family is involved in the oil industry and in the defense industry â and also their pals.
Today the US is spending more in defense than the next 12 countries combined.
On March 18, 2002 âFortuneâ magazine had an interesting article:"What do George Bush, Arthur Levitt, Jim Baker, Dick Darman, and John Major have in common? (They all work for the Carlyle Group.)
The Carlyle Group, a Washington, D. C., buyout firm, is one of the nation's largest defense contractors. It has billions of dollars at its disposal and employs a few important people. Maybe you've heard of them: former Secretary of State Jim Baker, former Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci, and former White House budget director Dick Darman. Wait, we're just getting warmed up. William Kennard, who recently headed the FCC, and Arthur Levitt, who just left the SEC, also work for Carlyle. As do former British Prime Minister John Major and former Philippines President Fidel Ramos. Let's see, are we forgetting anyone? Oh, right, former President George Herbert Walker Bush is on the payroll too."
In the next 3 years alone the US government will spend over US 1.2 trillion dollars for defense, the Carlyle Group will have a bonanza in earnings, because of the government's defense spending spree. If George Bush Jr. can start a war against Iraq, or any war for that matterâdad Bush and his pals can make a ton of money with the Carlyle Group.
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SouthAmerica: Osama Bin Ladden also was very well trained by the CIA in Afghanistan in the 1980âs â They did a very good job not only in preparing him to be a world-class terrorist but also they turned him into a legend â the man who put the US to its knees.
Nick Leeson Jr: I GUESS I MISSED THE US BEING PUT TO ITS KNEES BY OSAMA BIN LADEN, WHEN WAS THIS?
SouthAmerica: Osama Bin Ladden has put the United States to its knees in many ways â he made Americans make major changes not only to its way of life but also to its Constitution and Bill of Rights and he is transforming the United States into a police state.
Bin Ladden forced Americans to:
1) Adopt the US Patriot Act (a big blow to the US Constitution and Bill of Rights)
2) He forced the American forces out of Saudi Arabia.
3) The US government to spy on American citizens on American soil.
4) To become even more neurotic about any boogieman that is on its way to get the American people.
I never imagined before that just one person (Osama Bin Ladden) could do so much damage to the United States and force Americans to change so much.
.
June 29, 2006
SouthAmerica: Bill Clinton had nothing to gain from helping thousands and thousands of poor people who were being slaughtered by the Serbian Army. (There were no OIL deals after that war ended to give fabulous contracts to his pals and corporations).
Nick Leeson Jr: HE HAD A LOT TO GAIN, IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR CLAIM THAT THE NK MISSILE LAUNCH IS A DIVERSION, SO WAS THE KOSOVO WAR, BECAUSE AS IT SEEMS AT THE TIME CLINTON THE "GENTLEMAN AND REAL STATESMAN" WAS IN SOME TROUBLE FOR LYING UNDER OATH ABOUT WHY HIS SEMEN WAS ALL OVER SOME WOMAN'S (NOT HIS WIFES) DRESS. CLINTON THE GENTLEMAN . . .
I HAVE ALSO HEARD A LOT ABOUT OIL DETERMINING THE US INVOLVEMENT IN THE KOSOVO WAR, THOUGH I CAN'T FIND ANYTHING ABOUT IT ON THE CNN WEBSITE . . .
AND WHAT HAS BUSH GAINED BY INVADING IRAQ??
SouthAmerica: How many Americans and foreigners for that matter were wounded or got killed because of Bill Clintonâs blowjob?
As far as I know "Zero" people were wounded or killed (She got a stain on her dress) â and I hope Bill had a good time.
The current issue of one of the tabloids on the supermarket has a front page story saying that Bushâs wife is pissed with him because he is having an affair with Condi Rice. (I donât know if that story is really true â if it is true then Bush must be in very bad shape when comes to sex and in my opinion he has a bad taste for women.)
Bill Clinton is another story â he has a decent taste for women, Jennifer Flowers comes to mind â I thought she was a very attractive woman.
But Condi Rice â please give me a break.
On Bushâs War in Iraq almost 3,000 Americans have died and 19,000 have been wounded very badly.
When we compare the two:
In one side we have Clintonâs blowjob â which most of the world could care less about it â and many men around the world might even be jealous of Clinton â because he got a blowjob by a twenty-year old pretty decent looking girl.
In the other side we have George W. Bush (The Moron) responsible for the death of over 3,000 Americans and over 19,000 seriously wounded American soldiers.
What the Bush Clan has to gain from the Iraq war?
First the Bush Family is involved in the oil industry and in the defense industry â and also their pals.
Today the US is spending more in defense than the next 12 countries combined.
On March 18, 2002 âFortuneâ magazine had an interesting article:"What do George Bush, Arthur Levitt, Jim Baker, Dick Darman, and John Major have in common? (They all work for the Carlyle Group.)
The Carlyle Group, a Washington, D. C., buyout firm, is one of the nation's largest defense contractors. It has billions of dollars at its disposal and employs a few important people. Maybe you've heard of them: former Secretary of State Jim Baker, former Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci, and former White House budget director Dick Darman. Wait, we're just getting warmed up. William Kennard, who recently headed the FCC, and Arthur Levitt, who just left the SEC, also work for Carlyle. As do former British Prime Minister John Major and former Philippines President Fidel Ramos. Let's see, are we forgetting anyone? Oh, right, former President George Herbert Walker Bush is on the payroll too."
In the next 3 years alone the US government will spend over US 1.2 trillion dollars for defense, the Carlyle Group will have a bonanza in earnings, because of the government's defense spending spree. If George Bush Jr. can start a war against Iraq, or any war for that matterâdad Bush and his pals can make a ton of money with the Carlyle Group.
***********************
SouthAmerica: Osama Bin Ladden also was very well trained by the CIA in Afghanistan in the 1980âs â They did a very good job not only in preparing him to be a world-class terrorist but also they turned him into a legend â the man who put the US to its knees.
Nick Leeson Jr: I GUESS I MISSED THE US BEING PUT TO ITS KNEES BY OSAMA BIN LADEN, WHEN WAS THIS?
SouthAmerica: Osama Bin Ladden has put the United States to its knees in many ways â he made Americans make major changes not only to its way of life but also to its Constitution and Bill of Rights and he is transforming the United States into a police state.
Bin Ladden forced Americans to:
1) Adopt the US Patriot Act (a big blow to the US Constitution and Bill of Rights)
2) He forced the American forces out of Saudi Arabia.
3) The US government to spy on American citizens on American soil.
4) To become even more neurotic about any boogieman that is on its way to get the American people.
I never imagined before that just one person (Osama Bin Ladden) could do so much damage to the United States and force Americans to change so much.
.
.
July 3, 2006
SouthAmerica: Is the Bush administration capable of starting the first "Nuclear War" between 2 countries?
I would not be surprised. Today we have the most incompetent US government in US history. There is no limit for their screw-ups around the world.
*********************
âN. Korea warns of nuclear war if attackedâ
By JOSEPH COLEMAN, Associated Press Writer
AP â Associated Press â July 3, 2006
SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea would respond to a pre-emptive U.S. military attack with an "annihilating strike and a nuclear war," the state-run media said Monday, heightening anti-U.S. rhetoric amid close scrutiny of its missile program.
The Korean Central News Agency, citing an unidentified Rodong Sinmun newspaper "analyst," accused the United States of increasing military pressure on the isolated communist state and basing new spy planes on the Korean Peninsula.
The North Korean threat of retaliation, which is often voiced by its state-controlled media, comes amid U.S. official reports that Pyongyang has shown signs of preparing for a test of a long-range missile. North Korea claims it has the right to such a launch.
On Friday, Pyongyang accused the United States of driving the situation on the Korean Peninsula "to the brink of war," and said it is fully prepared to counter any U.S. aggression.
Monday's report accused Washington of escalating military pressure on the country with war exercises, a massive arms buildup and aerial espionage by basing new spy planes in South Korea.
"This is a grave military provocation and blackmail to the DPRK, being an indication that the U.S. is rapidly pushing ahead in various fields with the extremely dangerous war moves," the dispatch said.
"The army and people of the DPRK are now in full preparedness to answer a pre-emptive attack with a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war with a mighty nuclear deterrent," the report said.
DPRK stands for the North's official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
North Korea routinely accuses the U.S. of aerial espionage, issuing a tally of such flights at the end of every month. The U.S. military doesn't comment, although it acknowledges monitoring North Korean military activity.
Washington and Japan have said in recent weeks that spy satellite images show North Korea has taken steps to prepare a long-range Taepodong-2 missile for a test-launch.
Estimates for the range of the missile vary widely, but at least one U.S. study said it could be able to reach parts of the United States with a light payload.
Speculation that Pyongyang could fire the missile has waned in recent days since the country's top ally and a major source of its energy supplies, China, reportedly urged North Korea not to go ahead with the test.
Meanwhile, a South Korean government official said Seoul is considering buying U.S. shipborne SM-2 missiles to bolster its missile-defense system.
The move is the latest by South Korea and Japan to strengthen their defenses amid signs of the North Korean missile test. Seoul announced last week the purchase of Patriot interceptor missiles from Germany.
SM-2 missiles, however, are reportedly effective against cruise missiles and at striking aircraft but would not be able to hit a long-range missile.
"I understand that we have requested information" on the missiles for purchase, said Park Sung-soo, an official at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, without elaborating.
The U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the possible sale last week, according to its Web site. The order would be for 48 SM-2 Block IIIB tactical standard missiles and associated equipment and training.
The agency estimated the cost at $111 million.
South Korea would use the missiles to defend its new KDX-III AEGIS destroyer, and already uses SM-2 Block IIIA missiles in its ship combat systems, the agency said. The prime contractor will be Raytheon Systems Company of Tucson, Ariz., the agency said.
In early June, the Pentagon notified Congress that the U.S. could sell Japan nine upgraded SM-3 missiles and related equipment for use on their AEGIS destroyers. The price tag was put at up to $438 million.
Japan already has four AEGIS destroyers operating with SM-2 missiles, and two more are under construction, the Pentagon said.
Last week, officials said that South Korea had notified Germany of its interest in buying Patriot interceptor missiles, with the aim of replacing its outdated Nike-Hercules missiles by 2010.
The Nike-Hercules missiles have served as South Korea's main anti-aircraft weapons for some 40 years, but the Patriot missiles are more advanced at intercepting and destroying incoming ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and enemy aircraft.
South Korea's military as yet has no Patriots, although some are already deployed on U.S. bases in the country, where about 29,500 U.S. troops are stationed as a deterrent against communist North Korea.
.
July 3, 2006
SouthAmerica: Is the Bush administration capable of starting the first "Nuclear War" between 2 countries?
I would not be surprised. Today we have the most incompetent US government in US history. There is no limit for their screw-ups around the world.
*********************
âN. Korea warns of nuclear war if attackedâ
By JOSEPH COLEMAN, Associated Press Writer
AP â Associated Press â July 3, 2006
SEOUL, South Korea - North Korea would respond to a pre-emptive U.S. military attack with an "annihilating strike and a nuclear war," the state-run media said Monday, heightening anti-U.S. rhetoric amid close scrutiny of its missile program.
The Korean Central News Agency, citing an unidentified Rodong Sinmun newspaper "analyst," accused the United States of increasing military pressure on the isolated communist state and basing new spy planes on the Korean Peninsula.
The North Korean threat of retaliation, which is often voiced by its state-controlled media, comes amid U.S. official reports that Pyongyang has shown signs of preparing for a test of a long-range missile. North Korea claims it has the right to such a launch.
On Friday, Pyongyang accused the United States of driving the situation on the Korean Peninsula "to the brink of war," and said it is fully prepared to counter any U.S. aggression.
Monday's report accused Washington of escalating military pressure on the country with war exercises, a massive arms buildup and aerial espionage by basing new spy planes in South Korea.
"This is a grave military provocation and blackmail to the DPRK, being an indication that the U.S. is rapidly pushing ahead in various fields with the extremely dangerous war moves," the dispatch said.
"The army and people of the DPRK are now in full preparedness to answer a pre-emptive attack with a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war with a mighty nuclear deterrent," the report said.
DPRK stands for the North's official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
North Korea routinely accuses the U.S. of aerial espionage, issuing a tally of such flights at the end of every month. The U.S. military doesn't comment, although it acknowledges monitoring North Korean military activity.
Washington and Japan have said in recent weeks that spy satellite images show North Korea has taken steps to prepare a long-range Taepodong-2 missile for a test-launch.
Estimates for the range of the missile vary widely, but at least one U.S. study said it could be able to reach parts of the United States with a light payload.
Speculation that Pyongyang could fire the missile has waned in recent days since the country's top ally and a major source of its energy supplies, China, reportedly urged North Korea not to go ahead with the test.
Meanwhile, a South Korean government official said Seoul is considering buying U.S. shipborne SM-2 missiles to bolster its missile-defense system.
The move is the latest by South Korea and Japan to strengthen their defenses amid signs of the North Korean missile test. Seoul announced last week the purchase of Patriot interceptor missiles from Germany.
SM-2 missiles, however, are reportedly effective against cruise missiles and at striking aircraft but would not be able to hit a long-range missile.
"I understand that we have requested information" on the missiles for purchase, said Park Sung-soo, an official at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration, without elaborating.
The U.S. Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of the possible sale last week, according to its Web site. The order would be for 48 SM-2 Block IIIB tactical standard missiles and associated equipment and training.
The agency estimated the cost at $111 million.
South Korea would use the missiles to defend its new KDX-III AEGIS destroyer, and already uses SM-2 Block IIIA missiles in its ship combat systems, the agency said. The prime contractor will be Raytheon Systems Company of Tucson, Ariz., the agency said.
In early June, the Pentagon notified Congress that the U.S. could sell Japan nine upgraded SM-3 missiles and related equipment for use on their AEGIS destroyers. The price tag was put at up to $438 million.
Japan already has four AEGIS destroyers operating with SM-2 missiles, and two more are under construction, the Pentagon said.
Last week, officials said that South Korea had notified Germany of its interest in buying Patriot interceptor missiles, with the aim of replacing its outdated Nike-Hercules missiles by 2010.
The Nike-Hercules missiles have served as South Korea's main anti-aircraft weapons for some 40 years, but the Patriot missiles are more advanced at intercepting and destroying incoming ballistic missiles, cruise missiles and enemy aircraft.
South Korea's military as yet has no Patriots, although some are already deployed on U.S. bases in the country, where about 29,500 U.S. troops are stationed as a deterrent against communist North Korea.
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Quote from riskarb:
It's time to turn the nuclear whipping boy that is NK into a shiny, Trinitite parking lot for the rest of Asia. How 'bout the World's biggest shopping mall?
However, before that we probably will have a nuclear contaminated South Korea and Japan to deal with, not to mention the deaths of thousands of US servicemen and women positioned in S. Korea. I don't think N. Korea will hesitate to use nukes when they see that they will be blown into oblivion.
The world is a dangerous place with nutcases like Bin Ladin, the honchos in Pyongyoung, the neocons in D.C., the Pak mullahs running the hate spewing Madrassas funded by the Saudis and the likes of them running around.
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July 4, 2006
SouthAmerica: North Korea commemorates the American 4th of July holiday with some fireworks.
North Korea seems really intimidated by US rhetoric regarding its test of the long-range missile â they even waited to do it on a special date - the 4th of July.
******************
âNorth Korea fires series of missilesâ
By ERIC TALMADGE, Associated Press Writer
AP â Associated Press â July 4, 2006
TOKYO - A defiant North Korea test-fired a long-range missile Wednesday that may be capable of reaching America, but it failed seconds after launch and fell into the Sea of Japan, U.S. officials said. The White House called the exercise "a provocation."
The audacious military test â which included two shorter range missiles â came despite stern warnings from the United States and Japan. The isolated communist nation carried out the tests as the U.S. celebrated the Fourth of July holiday and launched the space shuttle Discovery.
"We are urgently consulting with members of the Security Council," said John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.
None of the three missiles made it as far as Japan. The Japanese government said all landed in the Sea of Japan between Japan and the Korean Peninsula.
"It is a provocation," said a senior administration official, who spoke only on condition of anonymity.
White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, told reporters, "The North Koreans have again clearly isolated themselves."
The State Department said initial intelligence indicates that the two smaller missiles were a Scud and a Rodong. The Scuds are short-range and could target South Korea. The Rodong has a range of about 620 miles and could target Japan.
State Department officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2, North Korea's most advanced missile with a range of up to 9,320 miles. Experts believe a Taepodong-2 could reach the United States with a light payload.
The launch came after weeks of speculation that the North was preparing to test the Taepodong-2 from a site on its northeast coast. The preparations had generated stern warnings from the United States and Japan, which had threatened possible economic sanctions in response.
"North Korea has gone ahead with the launch despite international protest," Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said. "That is regrettable from the standpoint of Japan's security, the stability of international society, and non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."
The missiles all landed hundreds of miles away from Japan and there were no reports the missiles caused damage within Japanese territory, Abe said.
He said the first missile was launched at about 3:30 a.m. Wednesday, or about 2:30 p.m. Tuesday EDT. The two others were launched at bout 4 a.m. and 5 a.m., he said.
Meanwhile, the North American Aerospace Defense Command â which monitors the skies for threats to North American security â went on heightened alert, said NORAD spokesman Michael Kucharek.
"There's a lot going on," he said. "The safety of our people and resources is our top priority."
If the timing is correct, the North Korean missiles were launched within minutes of Tuesday's liftoff of Discovery, which blasted into orbit from Cape Canaveral in the first U.S. space shuttle launch in a year.
It was not clear which launch was the long-range missile. The Japanese government was unable to confirm the report by U.S. officials that a Taepodong-2 was fired.
Han Song Ryol, deputy chief of North Korea's mission to the U.N. in New York, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview: "We diplomats do not know what the military is doing."
North Korea's missile program is based on Scud technology provided by the former Soviet Union or Egypt, according to American and South Korean officials.
North Korea started its Rodong-1 missile project in the late 1980s and test-fired the missile for the first time in 1993.
North Korea had observed a moratorium on long-range missile launches since 1999. It shocked the world in 1998 by firing a Taepodong missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean.
On Monday, the North's main news agency quoted an unidentified newspaper analyst as saying Pyongyang was prepared to answer a U.S. military attack with "a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war."
The Bush administration responded by saying while it had no intention of attacking, it was determined to protect the United States if North Korea launched a long-range missile.
On Monday, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns warned North Korea against firing the missile and urged the communist country to return to six-nation talks on its nuclear program.
The six-party talks, suspended by North Korea, involved negotiations by the United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia with Pyongyang over the country's nuclear program.
The United States and its allies South Korea and Japan have taken quick steps over the past week to strengthen their missile defenses.
Washington and Tokyo are working on a joint missile-defense shield, and South Korea is considering the purchase of American SM-2 defensive missiles for its destroyers.
The U.S. and North Korea have been in a standoff over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program since 2002. The North claims to have produced nuclear weapons, but that claim has not been publicly verified by outside analysts.
While public information on North Korea's military capabilities is murky, experts doubt that the regime has managed to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to mount on its long-range missiles.
Nonetheless, Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told U.S. lawmakers last week that officials took the potential launch reports seriously and were looking at the full range of capabilities possessed by North Korea.
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AP reporters Larry Margasak in Washington and Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations contributed to this report.
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July 4, 2006
SouthAmerica: North Korea commemorates the American 4th of July holiday with some fireworks.
North Korea seems really intimidated by US rhetoric regarding its test of the long-range missile â they even waited to do it on a special date - the 4th of July.
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âNorth Korea fires series of missilesâ
By ERIC TALMADGE, Associated Press Writer
AP â Associated Press â July 4, 2006
TOKYO - A defiant North Korea test-fired a long-range missile Wednesday that may be capable of reaching America, but it failed seconds after launch and fell into the Sea of Japan, U.S. officials said. The White House called the exercise "a provocation."
The audacious military test â which included two shorter range missiles â came despite stern warnings from the United States and Japan. The isolated communist nation carried out the tests as the U.S. celebrated the Fourth of July holiday and launched the space shuttle Discovery.
"We are urgently consulting with members of the Security Council," said John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations.
None of the three missiles made it as far as Japan. The Japanese government said all landed in the Sea of Japan between Japan and the Korean Peninsula.
"It is a provocation," said a senior administration official, who spoke only on condition of anonymity.
White House Press Secretary Tony Snow, told reporters, "The North Koreans have again clearly isolated themselves."
The State Department said initial intelligence indicates that the two smaller missiles were a Scud and a Rodong. The Scuds are short-range and could target South Korea. The Rodong has a range of about 620 miles and could target Japan.
State Department officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the long-range missile was the Taepodong-2, North Korea's most advanced missile with a range of up to 9,320 miles. Experts believe a Taepodong-2 could reach the United States with a light payload.
The launch came after weeks of speculation that the North was preparing to test the Taepodong-2 from a site on its northeast coast. The preparations had generated stern warnings from the United States and Japan, which had threatened possible economic sanctions in response.
"North Korea has gone ahead with the launch despite international protest," Japanese Chief Cabinet Secretary Shinzo Abe said. "That is regrettable from the standpoint of Japan's security, the stability of international society, and non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction."
The missiles all landed hundreds of miles away from Japan and there were no reports the missiles caused damage within Japanese territory, Abe said.
He said the first missile was launched at about 3:30 a.m. Wednesday, or about 2:30 p.m. Tuesday EDT. The two others were launched at bout 4 a.m. and 5 a.m., he said.
Meanwhile, the North American Aerospace Defense Command â which monitors the skies for threats to North American security â went on heightened alert, said NORAD spokesman Michael Kucharek.
"There's a lot going on," he said. "The safety of our people and resources is our top priority."
If the timing is correct, the North Korean missiles were launched within minutes of Tuesday's liftoff of Discovery, which blasted into orbit from Cape Canaveral in the first U.S. space shuttle launch in a year.
It was not clear which launch was the long-range missile. The Japanese government was unable to confirm the report by U.S. officials that a Taepodong-2 was fired.
Han Song Ryol, deputy chief of North Korea's mission to the U.N. in New York, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview: "We diplomats do not know what the military is doing."
North Korea's missile program is based on Scud technology provided by the former Soviet Union or Egypt, according to American and South Korean officials.
North Korea started its Rodong-1 missile project in the late 1980s and test-fired the missile for the first time in 1993.
North Korea had observed a moratorium on long-range missile launches since 1999. It shocked the world in 1998 by firing a Taepodong missile over Japan and into the Pacific Ocean.
On Monday, the North's main news agency quoted an unidentified newspaper analyst as saying Pyongyang was prepared to answer a U.S. military attack with "a relentless annihilating strike and a nuclear war."
The Bush administration responded by saying while it had no intention of attacking, it was determined to protect the United States if North Korea launched a long-range missile.
On Monday, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns warned North Korea against firing the missile and urged the communist country to return to six-nation talks on its nuclear program.
The six-party talks, suspended by North Korea, involved negotiations by the United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia with Pyongyang over the country's nuclear program.
The United States and its allies South Korea and Japan have taken quick steps over the past week to strengthen their missile defenses.
Washington and Tokyo are working on a joint missile-defense shield, and South Korea is considering the purchase of American SM-2 defensive missiles for its destroyers.
The U.S. and North Korea have been in a standoff over Pyongyang's nuclear weapons program since 2002. The North claims to have produced nuclear weapons, but that claim has not been publicly verified by outside analysts.
While public information on North Korea's military capabilities is murky, experts doubt that the regime has managed to develop a nuclear warhead small enough to mount on its long-range missiles.
Nonetheless, Lt. Gen. Michael Maples, director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, told U.S. lawmakers last week that officials took the potential launch reports seriously and were looking at the full range of capabilities possessed by North Korea.
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AP reporters Larry Margasak in Washington and Edith M. Lederer at the United Nations contributed to this report.
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