Non-display fees

terr said:
lspdtrdr - it's not hacking. It is pretty straightforward programming.
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if you don't think bypassing broker/exchange authentication isn't criminal hacking then great, you should do it. you're an adult, i'm sure you can assess the risks. not going to help you do that at this point though. if you want citations so you can assess the risk for this type of thing, you should find them yourself.

going forward in this thread, with OPs nod, would appreciate if we could keep the discussion to legal alternatives. i have zero interest in participating in this discussion if the theme is how to hack exchange/broker authentication, even if it's hypothetical. thanks.
 
lspdtrdr said:
going forward in this thread, with OPs nod, would appreciate if we could keep the discussion to legal alternatives.
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..and viable technical/other alternatives.

As for legal alternatives? L O L, What are you going to do, sue the exchanges? :rolleyes: Write a letter to the SEC? They approved this in 2015; they're on payroll.

We are all at their mercy. I've been noodling on this for months and months. The only options that I've come up with are:

1. Create a new exchange where data are free. Not an easy road. I'm taking a swing at that here:
http://www.decentralizedstockexchange.com/
2. Trade Forex, or another financial instrument where the fees are more reasonable
3. Use display only and forget about algos
4. Pull your money out of the market and invest in real estate, or a small business... maybe a coffee shop.
5. Pray. Perhaps the Lord will hear our cry.
 
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lspdtrdr said:
if you don't think bypassing broker/exchange authentication isn't criminal hacking then great, you should do it. you're an adult, i'm sure you can assess the risks. not going to help you do that at this point though. if you want citations so you can assess the risk for this type of thing, you should find them yourself.

going forward in this thread, with OPs nod, would appreciate if we could keep the discussion to legal alternatives. i have zero interest in participating in this discussion if the theme is how to hack exchange/broker authentication, even if it's hypothetical. thanks.
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1. I think myself, I'm just going to keep IQFeed. I use it to develop trading algorithms and backtest them. If I am asked a non-display fee then I would just use historical data. Once I had a solid trading algorithm the only plan that occurs to me is to port the algorithm into Tradestation or Ninjatrader.

2. Hope IB doesnt get hit and try to get profitable using their feed and their API

Sorry about this noob question, but is trading Nasdaq only viable? Lightspeed asked me a nondisplay fee of 375€/month

3. Look for a prop firm willing to absorb the non-display fee and allowing API access through their trading platform. (this is in case Robert's info is correct meaning that NYSE charges only once per account name)

4. Yes, trading other instruments.

5. Some sophisticated hack, like automating keyboard input and screen reading. Develop algos with historical data. Automate them not through APIs, better through input automation or something like that.

There has to be people trading algorithms around. What are they plans??
 
I investigated something called Sikuli, but I doubt the screen reading is fast enough and precise. But I like the direction of this idea. It would be like automating my hand. It would not use their APIs at all. Imagine you put a camera in front of your display that reads all the info in real time and at the same time controls keyboard and mouse inputs. It would be again non-display usage but hell, it's impossible to tell and it would not use any APIs, just the regular GUI.
 
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Joan said:
I investigated something called Sikuli, but I doubt the screen reading is fast enough and precise. But I like the direction of this idea. It would be like automating my hand. It would not use their APIs at all. Imagine you put a camera in front of your display that reads all the info in real time and at the same time controls keyboard and mouse inputs. It would be again non-display usage but hell, it's impossible to tell and it would not use any APIs, just the regular GUI.
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We used to call this a "screen scrape." Note that writing to the screen is an expensive operation (in terms of time). It will reduce your speed by a factor of at least 10.
 
Joan said:
Maybe IB doesn't know who their API users are, since its TWS platform maybe sends the same requests whether you use the GUI or the API.
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IB charges a different rate if you send in an API order directly to an ECN (as opposed to a manual direct to ECN order). So they have to know.
 
Joan said:
Could you not just graph the ouput of your algos on your screen and just hit the BUY button manually yourself? It's a bit crappy, but it's the same regular traders do, isn't it? You derive data that is in support of your display, but it's ultimately you who decides when to send the order. Even though the visual output would tell you exactly what to order, prices, limits, etc... That would be really really hard to distinguish for NYSE, I guess.
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That is why this rule is unenforceable.
 
lspdtrdr said:
what kmiklas said, and programs DO have fingerprints. they hash the binary of your program and use that during the authentication process. if your binary changes, then you're no longer authenticated.
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This would be an idiotic way of enforcing the non-display fee. No one in their right mind would agree to do this if they were actively developing a changing program.
 
kmiklas said:
I was told that there is some kind of entitlement system either in place or being put in place, where only an authorized version of an algorithm is permitted to consume the data. You may have to run their monitoring process on your box... and run as r00t. Full cavity search, my friend.
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NYSE has the capability of going root on Windows, Mac, and all flavors of Linux machines? There is no way.
 
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