NoDoji's Day Trading Log

[TheAngryHermit]

Okay, I'm an idiot (obviously ), but why does everyone want her to trade S&P futures? Why not just trade SPY? SPY and ES charts are identical during "normal" market hours and SPY has more liquidity than she could ever possibly need. Plus, the fees are cheaper, I believe. With IB she could buy or sell 1000shrs of SPY for $5.00 with bundled pricing.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from TheAngryHermit:

Okay, I'm an idiot (obviously ), but why does everyone want her to trade S&P futures? Why not just trade SPY? SPY and ES charts are identical during "normal" market hours and SPY has more liquidity than she could ever possibly need. Plus, the fees are cheaper, I believe. With IB she could buy or sell 1000shrs of SPY for $5.00 with bundled pricing.

Everybody wants me to NOT trade ES, but I am liking it a LOT (on paper anyhow). I also like the tax advantage and the fact I can trade a very small part of my account. I'd like to move some more of my Etrade acct to IB and leave a small amount for trading ES. All I have in IB now is $30K for day trading stocks.

So that's my story and I'm sticking by it!

 

[NoDoji]

- $205 Day
+$161 Week
+$1864 Month

ESRX 66.85 stop triggered on open, filled @ 66.75 for -$205. This one was looking good pre-market, then news about a lawsuit being dismissed hit the wire at the open, driving the price up to 67.60.

Later put on another swing short ESRX @ 66.60 when it languished beneath the moving averages near that price, leaving a topping tail on the daily chart at the top of a steep run up. Later when it fell sharply, moved stop to near b/e, taken out exactly b/e with commission at the exact top of the end of day run up.

Paper traded ES again today using SPX 5 min chart. (All my initial stops are 3 pts):

I did not follow the +6/-6 signal to enter a long position because after the initial 5 min bar, I saw it as overextended and a higher odds short opportunity, so shorted @ 926.50. Once oversold, tightened stop to 923.50, hit for +$150. Did not go long at oversold because I still have a short bias I need to deal with. Waited for results of pivot and shorted again overbought @ 926.80, stop to 925.50 when oversold, stop moved to 920.00 on large secondary drop, hit on pivot from oversold +$340. Had I left that 925 stop in place, or at least a higher stop, would’ve caught some more down move, but happy with overall results.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from TheAngryHermit:

RIMM, I owe you one you piece of intercoursing bovine feces.

Hermit, this P/L post made me laugh so hard I believe it added an extra year to my life.

 

[jim2000]

Quote from Jander:

Not at all. There is no multi point slippage on the ES. Your stop will be filled on the number 99.999% of the time.

Not sure why people are being so critical, you seem to have plenty of experience so go for it. Worst case your account starts dwindling $150 at a time, sounds like you have the know how to put an end to it before it gets out of control.

Good luck

Ditto Jander.

You have a plan and know the ropes, just go for it.

Trading paper is 100% NO GOOD. It doesn't correlate one bit. Except maybe to get the mechanics down. The psychology is totally different.

You need screen time in ES, or whatever you trade. Period.

However, You MUST ALWAYS follow your rules 100%.

 

[bighog]

Nod

I looked at your spy paper tiger trading. Excellent stuff there. I do not have charts live on spy so i went to yahoo finance and popped up their free charts at end of day. That way i have at least a decent idea what you did compared to the ES chart. You will get the demo charts up from etrade i assume later.

Anyway it looks like you did EXCELLENT for a low range day, in ES the range was only 12 1/4 handles. Thats the beauty of futures, you trade to get most out of what the day offers you. Each day is another opportunity, yesterday is history. You get my point: today is what it is and thats all we have to work with.

You did give me chills though when you said in the beginning of the day you considered it overbought. Is that a bias you have from using indicator from trading stocks? Not saying it will not work, just saying i like to trade ES without built in bias.

I prefer to let PRICE ACTION alone quide me. I mean i have no idea what is moving price so how can i have a built in bias if price is oversold or overbought? Not to mention that as a breakout trader there is no such thing as overbought or oversold unless, UNTIL or when i get a REVERSAL signal based on the odds placed on such a signal. I do not talk to the mkt, let the mkt talk to us is my motto. Give me clues, give me hinks, innuendoes, clevege, anything to help me and this wicked lady called the mkt have a better relationship.

(sidenote, someone in chat asked if i was trying to help your trading or just hitting on you, ha. I will mention no name, surely you know in ET chat we have fun at times) :eek:

The mkt is visceral and cagey, i learned long ago there is no way to tell what the future will bring, (much less what next 5 minutes will bring when some clown throws in a 2k contract mkt order). Now in my trading this ES i see the future as the next bar to help read the previous bars clues where i anticipate price to head next based on targets derived from support/resist etc. Price itself is the only bias i want to quide me.

From your paper tiger trading today i have a feeling you will catch on real fast how fruitful intraday trading can be when going for the "RUNS". Some days you will catch them and ride that puppy all day, some days like today you will get 1/2 of the days range and a bit more. Trade for the "RUNS" will force you to look at TA in a different light. Losing days will be fewer and fewer because you will use fewer and fewer bias induced indicators and just go with what works. I bet you will be surprised how easy this type of trading can actually be. It is easier to hit a slow softball coming in at 70 MPH than a variety of big league screw balls coming at you at 98 MPH.

It is up to you to show the defeatists just how wrong they can be.

Enjoy the weekend. KISS works.

PS: Volume is useless in ES for small pikers like me. I care less if price moved on 5 contracts traded or 5thousand traded, the bottom line is still the same, either price went my way or it went against me. watching,volume, dom etc is a waste of time............focus on price, focus on catching the runs.

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from bighog:

Anyway it looks like you did EXCELLENT for a low range day, in ES the range was only 12 1/4 handles.

Thanks! Having very strict rules makes it all very mechanical, and feels very "safe". Moving stops too close is still tricky for me, in both this paper trading AND my actual stock trading.

Quote from bighog:

You did give me chills though when you said in the beginning of the day you considered it overbought. Is that a bias you have from using indicator from trading stocks? Not saying it will not work, just saying i like to trade ES without built in bias.

Only 2 days this week did I violate the opening bar's signal. The first time was Monday, when I chose to short the open. My reasoning was that the market had become a bit range bound near highs the week before, I did not detect any impetus to drive a breakout and futures had already gapped down a bit in premarket, so I wanted to jump on the train in the direction of its momentum. That was a great trade, I captured 18 pts by moving my stop in fairly tight when price consolidated after the drop. If I'd moved my stop to the 50% retracement level, could've captured another 18pts. Since I'm trading only 1 car, it affected my decision to take profits sooner. With 2 cars, I would've taken profits at consolidation on 1, left stop at 50% level on the other and caught the rest of that move.

Today was the second time I decided to go against the opening bar's signal. It wasn't so much "overbought" as in an indicator like stochastics. It was more just plain intuition: I saw that opening surge appear to lose steam, and it had the look of a short squeeze more than a real buying frenzy, so I took the short side.

Quote from bighog:

(sidenote, someone in chat asked if i was trying to help your trading or just hitting on you :eek:

What were we talking about?

 

[bighog]

Yes, the opening range can be very intuitive, subjective, thats for sure. Many say to fade the first move, many say pass on first move entirely, some say wait 5 minutes, 15 min, 30 min etc. Fade gaps, go with gaps, etc, etc.

With all that in mind a daytrader might get dizzy and pass out as soon as the mkt opened up at 0930 eastern. In days gone by i used to trade the US (30 year bond futures), talk about a nervous bunch of traders. The bonds (now TY is top dog) were TA basket cases to trade for "RUNS" so i narrowed them down to 8 tick, 16, tick, 24 swings and a whole handle swings as targets. See my point? I mechanized what i viewed as target points that get players attention to get STOPPED out or as a profit target. It worked very good. POINT BEING: it took most of the guess work out of the game and made it easier to trade, more for less. YEP, thats where i came up with the ORB for the ES when i moved to that mkt. I found analysing the mkts very interesting at first but later very useless aside from an understanding of basic economics. The macro picture is a snap to envision, but the timing is the bugaboo. With that in mind it is a fallacy to make longer time frame predictions, period. Whats a person to do in a situation like that when he/she knows the money is their, it has your name on it? How do you get some gravy?

The decision was to take all of the fundamentals out of the equation, no bones about it. Fundamentals are useless the shorter the time frame. News and reports will always matter yes. What was left to do? Right, narrow down the VAST field of TA down to mechanics as much as possible. That took some time and a lot of trial and error with signals. You get the picture,..... try this, throw it out, etc, etc...............then like JELLO, it all starts to gel and you have advanced from being a jackrabbit on crack to a more professional lean and mean trading machine.

See what happened? Instead of guessing at the start of the day and having no real clue or even wanting one, i just forced the start by using a setup that lifts the fighter plane off the ground and into the dogfight. Once the dogfight gets going and after the fight gets going, then we are on energy and proven tactics called our golden signals and our intuitive mind takes over. (our intuitive mind KNOWS the odds backward and forwards)

I repeat, this game gets easier, always visceral, but it gets easier as we use less and less to get more and more. I completly blow away the ramblings that many like to say about telling your main strategy (catch the "RUNS" from level to level) and the tactics used ( continuations instead of reversals, milk retraces, 50% retrace etc, etc). Those that say telling (giving away the secret) is wrong because it will ruin YOUR secret of total bs because price will always make "RUNS" when the others are forced out and others want in. Human nature is slower than a new computer chip. Nerds can not grasp that. Misplaced intelligence is mans worst enemy.


Ok, done for weekend, watching F1 qualifying for British race.

 

[bighog]

Nod, came across this thread, stealth trader has some good stuff. Bottom line..........PRICE action rules. _END_

Stealth Trader


Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 514


07-24-07 06:16 PM



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Quote from johnstac:

I just wanted to thank you guys again for your help. Today I realized that I can't do this. When I am reading the books or studying online, I am in control. When that bell rings though, I become a different person. I have the same problem in Las Vegas. I can read books and practice learning pricing action forever but without the control, it's not going to work.

My first trade was yesterday. I made a trade on the YM and also bought 100 shares of Texas Instruments before the close. These two netted me about $250. Today, I began trading the YM just using the TWS trader in IB. No software. Nothing. Just watching the charts and trading the trend. By noon I had made about $250 and was pretty happy with that. Then disaster. I found a good "get in" point and decided to buy 3 contracts of the YM instead of one. Problem was, In TWS, it prefills that box with 1. Instead of removing the one and making it a 3, I made it a 13 by accident. Well, I saw my P&L moving frantically and then saw what I had done. You have to remember that I was new to the TWS just two days ago. I panicked and couldn't figure out how to close the trade. It went against me in a big way and before I was done, I was over $4000 negative. Well, that isn't completely true. I did sell out of a position and then tried getting on the trend the other way; each time the trend would turn and the losses mounted. At this point, you could just call it stupidity or carelessness for adding the 3 and making it 13 contracts. Here was the defining moment though. At about 3PM EST or so I prayed to God to get me out of this mess and I would quit trading. I saw a downtrend and jumped on it. I bought 20 ym contracts. Remember, I'm $4200 down right now and desperate. I shorted the YM and all of the sudden it spiked down. My losses started disappearing $1000 at a time until I was actually $500 up. Ignoring the promise I made to God, I thought, yes! I'm going to not only break even but make some big cash. Needless to say, the day ended badly. $2200 down. This was a clear message to me that I don't belong in trading. I don't have the self control. I don't believe I could learn that control in a book. Instead of being grateful and getting out when I was ahead on the day, I still couldn't resist the desire.
Not even sure why I am sharing this. I guess I wonder if it happens to others as well. Today I spent $2200 to learn a lot about myself. Thank God it wasn't the $40k I had in the account.

Thanks again for the help guys and happy trading. I wish I was you but I'm not..
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Perhaps now it will sink in why I and several others advised you to paper trade with the demo before using real cash. If you recall, I also said to learn to use the TWS like it was second nature before placing any trades.

Simply put, you listened to nothing anyone here said, and as such, it cost you. Precisely the reason I rarely ever give trading details.

Today was an easy trading day. The charts were an easy read. You broke every rule ever written about trading, and as such, you deserved to lose much more than you did for your actions, but I am sincerely glad that you didn't.

Unfortunately, I have the feeling you haven't really learned anything today, and will be repeating your mistakes in short order. I hope that is not the case.

st


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PS: the threads name "career trader" Beginner Question

 

[NoDoji]

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Quote from johnstac:

Problem was, In TWS, it prefills that box with 1. Instead of removing the one and making it a 3, I made it a 13 by accident.

This exact thing happened to me setting up qty defaults in TT-Trader the other day. Changed the 1 to a 3, got 13, tried it again, 13. Tried it a different way...13. Finally, did something and was able to get a 3 in there. Is there a guild of secretly evil programmers working on these trading platforms, causing simple data entry to become a trader's worst nightmare?