NinjaTrader vs OpenQuant for automated trading

In the search for a new trading platform I've studied and tested certain aspects of NT. Overall I’m impressed. However, there are a couple of area’s that I have concerns. One, being the inability of the system to run 24/5.5 without attendance. (In my case, its has to be manually restarted every time my broker reset their servers.) This problem has been resolve by other software packages,years ago (Ensign). The second concern is the system seems to lose track of imported data and it has to be re-imported.

I will look at Open Quant next.

The system selected should have or let me, as an ex program manager and programmer, add a walk forward optimizer that will optimize the data stream bars (100 ticks to 300 ticks by 25 ticks for example for tick bars) among other variable. NT indicates that this feature will be in their upcoming v7 release.

The system has to, again with my modifications if necessary, have the ability to run 24/5.5 unattended.
 
I have licenses for both NT and OQ. I started re-coding an existing TradeStation strategy for OQ and then switched part way through the project to NT.

My opinion is that OQ is the superior product but with almost non-existent support. I'm only a novice programmer, but after working with a couple of freelancers on the re-coding project here's what I've gathered.

One huge difference in favor of OQ is that it appears to be multithreaded while NT is definitely not. Where this has a real impact is in backtesting with tick data. Every single tick is loaded in an NT backtest, vs OQ, where only the tick bars created in the bar factory are loaded into memory for a backtest. As a consequence, the backtests are much faster in OQ and can cover a larger time period.

However, a huge negative with OQ is their disregard for their customer after the sale is made. You'll find many posts on the OQ forum where questions are asked repeatedly and no answer is provided. They just wear down the user 'til they give up and switch to a new platform. I've exchanged e-mails with others who have given up on the OQ platform b/c they couldn't get their support issues resolved.

It's really strange. Sometimes they answer promptly and sometimes they just don't feel like anwering.

A telling metric is the number of users on their forums at any given moment. You'll see that NT typically has 4x the users vs. OQ. You'll also notice that their are several support people on the NT forum answering questions in real-time vs. none on the OQ forum.

--Lou
 
Quote from bluelou:

I have licenses for both NT and OQ. I started re-coding an existing TradeStation strategy for OQ and then switched part way through the project to NT.

My opinion is that OQ is the superior product but with almost non-existent support. I'm only a novice programmer, but after working with a couple of freelancers on the re-coding project here's what I've gathered.

One huge difference in favor of OQ is that it appears to be multithreaded while NT is definitely not. Where this has a real impact is in backtesting with tick data. Every single tick is loaded in an NT backtest, vs OQ, where only the tick bars created in the bar factory are loaded into memory for a backtest. As a consequence, the backtests are much faster in OQ and can cover a larger time period.

However, a huge negative with OQ is their disregard for their customer after the sale is made. You'll find many posts on the OQ forum where questions are asked repeatedly and no answer is provided. They just wear down the user 'til they give up and switch to a new platform. I've exchanged e-mails with others who have given up on the OQ platform b/c they couldn't get their support issues resolved.

It's really strange. Sometimes they answer promptly and sometimes they just don't feel like anwering.

A telling metric is the number of users on their forums at any given moment. You'll see that NT typically has 4x the users vs. OQ. You'll also notice that their are several support people on the NT forum answering questions in real-time vs. none on the OQ forum.

--Lou
More...


you think OQ support is bad... you should try the support of the brokers API. many there is ZERO support
 
Sky, I'm not following you. Are you referring to using a broker that isn't supported by OQ out of the box and then trying to use that broker's API with OQ?
 
Quote from bluelou:

Sky, I'm not following you. Are you referring to using a broker that isn't supported by OQ out of the box and then trying to use that broker's API with OQ?
More...

just using the brokers API Period. w/ no openquant
 
I switched from Tradestation to Ninja in July 2008. I use Ninja with Mirus and have had great results with absolutely no problems.

My automated strategy runs completely unattended 24/5 trading the ES and is nicely profitable.

I highly recomend the Ninja Zenfire Mirus combination as rock solid reliable. This is by far the most important factor for a successful automated system. If you can not get reliable and fast data and reliable and fast order execution, you can have a great strategy and still not make money.

NinjaScript is based on C# and is not easy, but it has an ever growing list of capabilities. If I had to pick a second choice it would be NEOTICKER.
 
My automated strategy runs completely unattended 24/5 trading the ES and is nicely profitable.

I think this is the key. ninjatrader is designed to run automated strategies against 1 or more "instruments".

The problem is if one is wanting to trade a basket of stocks. For one the backtesting tests them individually, when in reality one would rank them and trade the ones with the highest rank.

Another issue I found is that I can't get the price of another instrument in a strategy. There is apparently a workaround for this but it looks complicated to me and involves programing. For example, let's say I during my ES strategy I want to get the price of YM. A simple idea but rather complicated to implement.

So now I'm debating what to do. I hear Amibroker is good for backtesting but not automation. Neoticker sounds interesting but it's expensive and I've read that the interface isn't easy to use (I'd say the same for Ninja). OpenQuant seems to have the most features but the support is really bad so one has to figure out stuff on their own.

Finally genesis trade navigator recently came to my attention. I haven't done my homework on that one but from what I read it's not very popular but those who use it recommend it.

VoilÃ_! That's where I'm at in my analysis. For me I'm doing everything by hand. Ninja would be a first step. But I need a better backtesting platform so my current plan is to learn Amibroker for backtesting and automate with Ninja. If I have to do the scans myself and enter the symbols into Ninja every day that would be ok for now but eventually I'd like it to be 100% automatic.
 
Quote from cunparis:

My automated strategy runs completely unattended 24/5 trading the ES and is nicely profitable.

I think this is the key. ninjatrader is designed to run automated strategies against 1 or more "instruments".

The problem is if one is wanting to trade a basket of stocks. For one the backtesting tests them individually, when in reality one would rank them and trade the ones with the highest rank.

Another issue I found is that I can't get the price of another instrument in a strategy. There is apparently a workaround for this but it looks complicated to me and involves programing. For example, let's say I during my ES strategy I want to get the price of YM. A simple idea but rather complicated to implement.

So now I'm debating what to do. I hear Amibroker is good for backtesting but not automation. Neoticker sounds interesting but it's expensive and I've read that the interface isn't easy to use (I'd say the same for Ninja). OpenQuant seems to have the most features but the support is really bad so one has to figure out stuff on their own.

Finally genesis trade navigator recently came to my attention. I haven't done my homework on that one but from what I read it's not very popular but those who use it recommend it.

VoilÃ_! That's where I'm at in my analysis. For me I'm doing everything by hand. Ninja would be a first step. But I need a better backtesting platform so my current plan is to learn Amibroker for backtesting and automate with Ninja. If I have to do the scans myself and enter the symbols into Ninja every day that would be ok for now but eventually I'd like it to be 100% automatic.
More...
To develope sofisticated NT based system you need to learn how to program using C#
 
Quote from ButterMilk:

To develope sofisticated NT based system you need to learn how to program using C#
More...

I'm a Java developer, so learning C# isn't a problem.

The problem is that my experience has taught me that the less programming one does the better. So it's good to find a platform which can minimize the programming. :)
 
Quote from cunparis:

Another issue I found is that I can't get the price of another instrument in a strategy. There is apparently a workaround for this but it looks complicated to me and involves programing. For example, let's say I during my ES strategy I want to get the price of YM. A simple idea but rather complicated to implement.
[/B]
More...

You should check out the ninja forums, I've not a very experienced programmer but didn't have much trouble getting the VIX into a YM strategy. There is an add instrument functions for strategies that works pretty simply. A second instrument in an indicator is where the problem is but I believe that will be fixed in 7.
I do understand your other points completely. Neoticker seems like it would be the best but needs to be totally redone at this point, it just feels like a hodge podge at this point. Openquant is the clear choice if you have experience but If you don't have experience it sounds like you will hit a wall and not have the support to get over the wall.
Ninja is incredible at what it does but it just doesn't do it all yet. I imagine Ninja 9 or 10 will make Ninja the clear leader in this area by a long shot but what to do until then is the problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top