NIH blocks access to genetic database if research enters forbidden territory

[gwb-trading]

Name one.

Science should stand or fall on its own merits, not on idealogical grounds. There are plenty of opportunities in academics to refute and debate data, conclusions and methodologies advanced in a research paper, and that should be the process for resolving scientific disputes. This is politics. The NIH should not be insinuating politics by cutting qualified researchers off from access to data compiled at taxpayer expense. Particularly researchers who are tenured professors at major universities.

In any event, there is a better argument for socialism if intelligence and other factors material to success can be shown to be a result of the genetic lottery rather than personal virtue or a lack thereof.

wrbtrader provided a link to the book Misbehaving Science which provides example after example of the inappropriate application of behavior genetics including the abuse of NIH data.

 

[kmgilroy89]

I think eugenics gets a bad wrap, because of Nazi Germany. The stigma of being associated with them has carried over for the past 80 years. The Nazis discovered a lot of interesting things (even though a lot of it was through unethical practices) and much of what they did was pseudoscience rather than science to pursue a bullshit political agenda that wasn't based in science and led to the Holocaust. However, just because the Nazis were into the subject doesn't mean eugenics should broadly be painted as unethical. The Nazis also created the Autobahn and discovered that smoking was bad. America under slavery also discovered many things. Point is society needs to look at each issue objectively rather than making association fallacies.

 

[ipatent]

wrbtrader provided a link to the book Misbehaving Science which provides example after example of the inappropriate application of behavior genetics including the abuse of NIH data.

The summary in his link wasn't altogether negative and didn't mention NIH data.

 

[ipatent]

I think eugenics gets a bad wrap, because of Nazi Germany.

We all practice eugenics on a micro scale when we search for a mate.

In any event, the issue here is not eugenics, it's about access to databases that tie phenotypes to their genetic underpinnings. This threatens many liberal positions, including the nature/nurture debate on the origin of qualities such as intelligence.

 

[Overnight]

We all practice eugenics on a micro scale when we search for a mate....

Oh really? So in your mind, we all search for mates that are the same race, skin-color, etc etc etc? Um, most people don't do that. When love strikes, all barriers are broken.

That is a narrow, puerile comment.

 

[Cuddles]

I'm actually a big supporter of eugenics and think it's the future for civilization. In fact, I think eventually nobody will have natural random children. You'd be a fool to have one when you could have a smarter/more athletic/better looking/less disease prone child. If you did, your child would be less competitive. The painful process of giving birth will be seen as archaic and children will be made in a lab. However, we are still a long way off from this time. If you look at what race people identify as you will probably find each race has a mixture of correlated genes that are both more/less desirable. For example, one group identifying as one race could be more prone to certain diseases. I think if we solely isolated the gene that contributes to skin color, darker skin would be more optimal as it holds up better against the sun. However, the drawback against darker skin is it can be harder to detect certain diseases than on somebody who's lighter as abnormalities become easier to spot.

you clearly haven't thought this through. Eugenics isn't merely racial of course but the ethical lines are still there. You start making super babies and only the well off will afford the latest "high iq", now you end up w/a bunch of wizards gatekeeping the tech and career paths while the poors get dumber. Look at Canadian immigration lottery for instance, it's "selective eugenics", it's how the west causes brain drain from around the world which remains fucked as their collective IQ continues to drop. Ethics is the reason we don't clone for organ vessels.

Of course the suspicion is the Chinese haven't been observing these international norms so soon you'll kneel to your high IQ Chinese overlords. Welcome to the future you ask for.

I can't believe people haven't seen Gattaca or Elyseum.

 

[kmgilroy89]

you clearly haven't thought this through. Eugenics isn't merely racial of course but the ethical lines are still there. You start making super babies and only the well off will afford the latest "high iq", now you end up w/a bunch of wizards gatekeeping the tech and career paths while the poors get dumber. Look at Canadian immigration lottery for instance, it's "selective eugenics", it's how the west causes brain drain from around the world which remains fucked as their collective IQ continues to drop. Ethics is the reason we don't clone for organ vessels.

Of course the suspicion is the Chinese haven't been observing these international norms so soon you'll kneel to your high IQ Chinese overlords. Welcome to the future you ask for.

I can't believe people haven't seen Gattaca or Elyseum.

I strongly disagree. Eugenics evens the playing field. Two stupid parents will now be able to have kids with the smart genes. I think it will be more affordable than going through pregnancy.

 

[Cuddles]

I strongly disagree. Eugenics evens the playing field. Two stupid parents will now be able to have kids with the smart genes. I think it will be more affordable than going through pregnancy.

You should make it part of your presidential run platform. Good luck

 

[kmgilroy89]

You should make it part of your presidential run platform. Good luck

Definitely going to bring it up! Was plan on making a video about it for a week or so now.

 

[wrbtrader]

you clearly haven't thought this through. Eugenics isn't merely racial of course but the ethical lines are still there. You start making super babies and only the well off will afford the latest "high iq", now you end up w/a bunch of wizards gatekeeping the tech and career paths while the poors get dumber. Look at Canadian immigration lottery for instance, it's "selective eugenics", it's how the west causes brain drain from around the world which remains fucked as their collective IQ continues to drop. Ethics is the reason we don't clone for organ vessels.

Of course the suspicion is the Chinese haven't been observing these international norms so soon you'll kneel to your high IQ Chinese overlords. Welcome to the future you ask for.

I can't believe people haven't seen Gattaca or Elyseum.

There are positive eugenics and negative eugenics.

Positive Eugenics

Historically, positive eugenic measures have included promoting the idea that healthy, high-achieving people should have children, or have larger families; introducing institutions and policies that encourage marriage and family life for such people; and establishing sperm banks where eugenically desirable traits, such as intelligence, are criterial either for donors or are listed as present in the donor for users to consider in their choices.

Negative Eugenics

Typically, these measures have included immigration restriction based on putatively eugenically undesirable traits, including race, nationality, and ethnicity; discouragement or prohibition of marriage and family life for those with eugenically undesirable traits; and sexual segregation, sterilization, and euthanasia of those with such traits.

The NIH has a problem with "negative eugenics" that's being abused by certain individuals, institutions, or research universities.

https://eugenicsarchive.ca/discover/tree/5233c3ac5c2ec50000000086

In my opinion, not discussed enough is the fact that sperm banks are eugenics...a very popular form of eugenics.

The DNA testing, phenology history, and medical history of donors are very extensive these days.

wrbtrader