Niederhoffer's Matador Fund 2006 Performance

If I were you I'd invest in a remedial grammar class.

Yes, I was long puts from early July through August.

I'm long a bunch now also.

Who was my source? I had multiple sources.

Vic is a liar, scam artist and pretentious prick know it all who has no business in this business.

Obviously your (sic) clueless.

You're not hip to the deceit. Here's how it goes. Take a skinny 99% outcome and leverage it to the hilt. During the years that it works trumpet how you are smarter than the pack and rape off performance fees. Then when the inevitable happens (shit Vic doesn't even need a black swan to blow out) you leave investors holding the bag. You then blame, your clearing firm, the CME, the locals in the pit, sub-prime, Asia....whatever flavor suits you. Rinse and repeat again.


Quote from James Lackey:

Mr Pa(b)st Prime, Your a bit ticked? You want recognition for what, being a reporter?

Did you take personal information from I presume a farm team member under stress and post the dirty laundry to a message board?

Only question I have is to what benefit was it to you, any members here or any guys trying to learn how to trade?

Were you in the know or did you hear a rumor on the subway. Did you consider how many people it might hurt, with no benefit to you? What in the world was the point?

Or were you long puts and trying to tout your book? if so I can call that fair game , but anything else is silly.

You want a note or a PM from the board man here? fine I want one from you. Who gave you the dirt? let us know who the rat was.

Your in the know. So what.
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That's sad. ProfLogic said is best; it sucks to see anyone in trouble.

Saying that trading is a zero-sum game, and that if you want to win, indirectly, you WANT someone to lose, is one thing, because that someone who will lose is often an anonymous other. But when I read about people who lost to Mr. Market, I feel a vicarious sense of pain. It reminds of my own horrible moments in front of the screen watching a $1000 loss turn into a $5000 loss...
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

You're not hip to the deceit. Here's how it goes. Take a skinny 99% outcome and leverage it to the hilt. During the years that it works trumpet how you are smarter than the pack and rape off performance fees. Then when the inevitable happens (shit Vic doesn't even need a black swan to blow out) you leave investors holding the bag. You then blame, your clearing firm, the CME, the locals in the pit, sub-prime, Asia....whatever flavor suits you. Rinse and repeat again. To you I say rinse twice.
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Good information sharing, good summary.
Well done Pa(b)st Prime.

Don't expect more from VN other than excuses and perhaps another book. The guy is toxic, to his family, to his investors, to the industry....
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Yea guy's I'm a bit ticked. Baron believed Vic over me. That's fine. After all who'd fathom Victor Niederhoffer calling Baron and lying about Matador's blow-up? Baron in turn deleted my first thread from August and said the entire premise was untrue. Once again, no prob. In Baron's mind he made the percentage bet.

However given that Baron has met me personally (Baron graciously bought a few Chicago ET'ers dinner a couple of years back) and given that Pabst became an ET member seven years ago, I think a little PM or a post would have been in order. Not an "apology" mind you, because after Vic's denial I think Baron's deletion of my thread was the right thing for him to do. Just the same I'd like to be treated as a person and not just an anonymous alias who's a cog in Baron's mil a year advertising empire.
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Hey Pabst:

Gotta say I agree with you. I'm thoroughly unimpressed with Baron in this, and several other instances, where he seems to come down on the wrong side of things. In fact, I'm starting to believe you can count on Baron to be a "wrong way Corrigan." And as you said, we all make mistakes, including Baron. But an acknowledgment of that mistake would have been in order you would think.

Normally, Baron seems to come down on the side of money (from advertising) versus the truth. Here, he seems to come down on the side of personality versus the truth....I guess it doesn't even take a buck. A new low indeed.

OldTrader
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

If I were you I'd invest in a remedial grammar class.

Yes, I was long puts from early July through August.

I'm long a bunch now also.

Who was my source? I had multiple sources.

Vic is a liar, scam artist and pretentious prick know it all who has no business in this business.

Obviously your (sic) clueless.

You're not hip to the deceit. Here's how it goes. Take a skinny 99% outcome and leverage it to the hilt. During the years that it works trumpet how you are smarter than the pack and rape off performance fees. Then when the inevitable happens (shit Vic doesn't even need a black swan to blow out) you leave investors holding the bag. You then blame, your clearing firm, the CME, the locals in the pit, sub-prime, Asia....whatever flavor suits you. Rinse and repeat again. To you I say rinse twice.
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I personally found all this very interesting ala LTCM. The real issue which is money management is very instructive to new and old traders alike. Some of the personality stuff is due to the type of person VN is. I don't know him so I can't say. New traders end up getting on the wrong side of a trade, now what? Same with guys swinging big size, directional traders, etc. This game is not for everyone. The drawdown in futures is terrible usually due to under capitalization. Even if VN got blown out by a margin change at CME then he was undercapitalized. I think the threads have been mosty on target and I learned more about money management. At the risk of repeating myself here is a simple article on money management bet size, etc. If anyone wants to add a lesson about money management do so.


http://www.seykota.com/tribe/risk/index.htm
 
Quote from James Lackey:


Did you take personal information from I presume a farm team member under stress and post the dirty laundry to a message board?
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AFAIK Pabst hasn't signed a confidentiality agreement with Vic. He's within his rights to post about a potential blowup at a hedge fund.

Vic on the other hand appears to have lied to Baron in order to manipulate him into censoring Pabst.

Are you of the view that lying in order manipulate and censor for commercial advantage is superior to honest reporting of the facts?
 
As interesting as this thread is, I have received numerous complaints, pertaining to its demeanor, tone, and content. So lets take the thread back on topic of VN performance, and off the topic of personal attacks and slanderous speculation. Will make my life easier, thanks.

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Quote from Cutten:


Vic on the other hand appears to have lied to Baron in order to manipulate him into censoring Pabst.

Are you of the view that lying in order manipulate and censor for commercial advantage is superior to honest reporting of the facts?
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This brings a question - if a HF manager lied about performance to keep his investors from pulling money or to keep them investing new money, and/or new investors gave money based on this lie - would this constitute securities fraud or fiduciary irresponsibility?

Legitimate question but it may not mean much with lockups anyway.
 
Quote from OldTrader:

Hey Pabst:

Gotta say I agree with you. I'm thoroughly unimpressed with Baron in this, and several other instances, where he seems to come down on the wrong side of things. In fact, I'm starting to believe you can count on Baron to be a "wrong way Corrigan." And as you said, we all make mistakes, including Baron. But an acknowledgment of that mistake would have been in order you would think.

Normally, Baron seems to come down on the side of money (from advertising) versus the truth. Here, he seems to come down on the side of personality versus the truth....I guess it doesn't even take a buck. A new low indeed.

OldTrader
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Agreed 100%

In my humble opinion, Baron has shown a lack of prudent judgment and/or integrity in this matter.
 
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