Niederhoffer thinks "follow the trend" sucks

The crux of the matter is that if you trade your own account, then you need to do your own thinking. And that's where his results bear that out.

Or one can trade OPM at no risk to himself, which puts one in the position of offering trading advice that is wildly out of synch with the needs and capacities of the small retail trader.

But it does make for entertaining reading.

How's that YM? Booyah!
 
I suppose we all have our own heroes. Heck, I keep rereading Reminiscences, and we all know that Livermore had a number of "setbacks." The man was a genius, but a flawed one. During each reread, I try to learn from both his wisdom and his mistakes.

I think surf's problem is that he latches onto people who give him access, and they then do his thinking for him. Surf often touches on subject matter that appears to be beyond him, like an ill-fitting suit. The crux of the matter is that if you trade your own account, then you need to do your own thinking. And that's where his results bear that out.

Surf, before you press the "Report" button, please understand that I don't mean any disrespect here. What I present is what I think is constructive criticism. You are of the view that people who do well in the markets must wear their hat in a certain way and no other. But that is not the case. We each must play to our own strengths and find our place in the market ecosystem, if, in fact, there is a place for us. Anything else is folly.

If you find this post offensive, then by all means complain to the moderator and do so with my blessing. Its deletion will do me no harm.

Why would i report this? I apprieciate the opinion. I work and associate with folks who are far brighter, bettter educated and connected than i will ever be. Im not ashamed of this. Its how i keep learning. Im just a hick from pittsburgh striving to make a name in the most difficult business on earth. I am very grateful to VNhis team snd everyone else who gave me a foothold.

I overreacted in poor taste to several who truly helped me also-- i feel bad but it is what it is--

surf
 
Or one can trade OPM at no risk to himself, which puts one in the position of offering trading advice that is wildly out of synch with the needs and capacities of the small retail trader.

But it does make for entertaining reading.

How's that YM? Booyah!
True, there is that "small" matter of moral hazard as it relates to trading OPM...
 
The trader who makes it and keeps it is a great trader.

The trader who makes it and loses it and makes it and loses it etc is merely an addict.

i think we all r addicts

i do not consider vic a great trader, but we have to keep in mind that any method and any person is fallible

just like the planes that did many many flights with pilots in them that also did many flights some times fall... something wrong is discovered afterwards ether with the plane design or maintenance or it was pilot's error

both the method and the trader are in constant state of change ...
 
True, there is that "small" matter of moral hazard as it relates to trading OPM...

I don't think that "moral hazard" is a real issue in this case :)

The moral hazard lies in pretending to know what you don't know and tap dancing like crazy in the hopes that people won't notice.;)
 
What no one ever mentions is the fact that VN is intensely competitive-- the first time he invited me to his home, he was playing tennis with guys half his age and I was watched as he crushed his opponents. In between the games, he would run into the tennis shack on his court that has its own Bloomberg to check the market.
He took this same spirit to the financial markets.

Being ranked the number one performing hedge fund manager on earth for a number of years and trying to maintain this ranking demands outsized risks. You are up against the smartest people in the world who are all risk takers by default. Therefore to win, you need to push things harder and further. Hence, the drawdowns. However, VN remains a wealthy man and is presently succesfully trading his own capital.

he is a true american hero who should be respected rather than vilified as he often is among the ignorant.

surf


Wait, so because he likes to play tennis in his spare time, and he likes to win, he's an American hero?

I mean, I know a lot of successful entrepreneurs,and certainly they add value to our economy, but calling a guy who likes to play tennis and can raise money an American hero is an insult to true American heroes.
 
...I work and associate with folks who are far brighter, bettter educated and connected than i will ever be. Im not ashamed of this. Its how i keep learning...
Then you're very fortunate. But I would suggest before you try to employ what you learn from them that you truly make it your own. What you use to initiate and manage your real trades needs to be understood as a first language, so to speak, and not as a distant second. Otherwise, you are prone to find yourself in a breakdown of...communication.
 
What no one ever mentions is the fact that VN is intensely competitive-- the first time he invited me to his home, he was playing tennis with guys half his age and I was watched as he crushed his opponents. In between the games, he would run into the tennis shack on his court that has its own Bloomberg to check the market.
He took this same spirit to the financial markets.

Being ranked the number one performing hedge fund manager on earth for a number of years and trying to maintain this ranking demands outsized risks. You are up against the smartest people in the world who are all risk takers by default. Therefore to win, you need to push things harder and further. Hence, the drawdowns. However, VN remains a wealthy man and is presently succesfully trading his own capital.

he is a true american hero who should be respected rather than vilified as he often is among the ignorant.

surf

You are a real salesman (or lawyer). You have a beautiful and positive explanation for what happened to Vic Niederhoffer.
If it would be my story instead of Vic Niederhoffer's story, your explanation would be completely (negatively) different, although based on the same objective facts. I would probably be an idiot, a dropout,a faker or a dreamer. Certainly not a hero. But I can understand that because I don't play tennis.

Why is he a hero? Because he teached people? Then all teachers are heroes.
Because he wiped out 2 times? Then all daytraders are heroes.
Because he is competitive? There are millions of competitive people.
 
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