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Newbie looking for advice
- Thread starter NEAsher
- Start date
Quote from NEAsher:
C'mon, guys. Doesn't anyone know what an edge is?
Well, since you asked...I think having access to enough capital to engage in working strategies vs. stock picking or directional type guessing which way the market will go. This is a legitimate edge, I know it sure helped my brother and I when we first started.
Don
No need for hostility, just pointing out "an" edge. Openings are certainly an edge, have been for decades, and you'll notice I said capital use helped my brother and I when we needed it, not just Bright Traders. I have a pretty good handle on what is working these days, with between 400-500 traders, pretty easy to see, LOL....I don't have to be so smart, just read the daily sheets.
Sure there are directional traders making money, and who knows, maybe they would make more with additional capital. And, yes there are other Pro firms who offer capital usage. No arguments from me.
All the best,
Don
Sure there are directional traders making money, and who knows, maybe they would make more with additional capital. And, yes there are other Pro firms who offer capital usage. No arguments from me.
All the best,
Don
Quote from NEAsher:
Hi, guys. Iâm a newbie, and this is my first post here. Iâve just been given an offer from a large prop firm, and Iâm seriously considering it. I would be trading equities intraday, and Iâm told that some experienced guys will be showing me the ropes. I have a fairly small bankroll, but the firm is offering heavy leverage. But the thing is, I donât have any real experience with the stock market, other than long-term investing (which is very different from day trading). I recently read an article in the September 2007 issue of Trader Monthly Magazine about the Top-30-Under-30 Traders, and I noticed that I have very little in common with these professionals. Most of them come from elite educational institutions, but I do not. Most of them seem to have serious quant backgrounds â there are a lot of math and physics and technology whizzes among them. I, on the other hand, have almost no understanding of physics or mathematical models. I took basic college-level math. I can use a computer for only basic consumer applications, like the average young person. I also notice that some of these traders have a background in team sports, which I also donât really have. Iâm not sure what the correlation between team sports and successful trading is, but it seems to exist nonetheless.
In addition, some posters on this board have said that it takes an âedgeâ to be successful at trading. I can honestly say that I donât know what an âedgeâ is in this game, so I doubt that I have one. Many of the guys on this board talk about losing money for years and years, before finally becoming consistently profitable. This is one thing I know for certain: I do not want to invest many years to a losing enterprise. I can understand giving it a try for a year, or a year-and-a-half. But some guys here are talking about having lost money for more than five straight years before they started taking money out of the market regularly. I just canât do that.
I guess Iâm asking if I should bother pursuing this at all? Given my lack of a quantitative (or sports?) background, my lack of an âedge,â and my small bankroll, am I just wasting my time and money? Donât get me wrong: I donât want to sell myself completely short. I can muster about $25,000, but it would suck to lose my entire savings over the course of a few months, so Iâm only committing a small amount at first. Also, I wonât be trading with money that I need for bills or living expenses. Iâll be living with my family unless and until my trading career takes off, so I wonât have to worry about food, shelter, or utilities. Still, it seems that Iâm starting from behind the 8-ball in a business that has a very high failure rate to begin with. Does anyone have any thoughts? BTW, Iâm going to post this message on more than one board, so donât be surprised if it comes up on another part of this site. Iâm not spamming, I just want to get the most responses possible in the hopes of potentially heading off a big mistake. Thanks in advance for your help.
Let me get this straight...you have no experience daytrading and you are going to trade other peoples money?...it don't add up...I suggest trading your own cash until you are proven and profitable....become consumed with one contract...ES,YM, QQQQ etc.
you had wrote..."But the thing is, I donât have any real experience with the stock market, other than long-term investing (which is very different from day trading). "...again...daytrade on your own before trading with other peoples money...serious situation here!
Quote from Mom0/pH0x:
an ''edge'' is to some degree an abstract concept. i guess it could be best defined as any tool, process, piece of information, or capability that delivers an applicable advantage over other market participants...
If that's the definition of an edge, then I certainly don't have one. Neither do most market participants, I think. I assume the word "tool" in the above quote refers to a powerful computer program; "piece of information" probably refers to inside information; and "capability" seems to mean extraordinary skill, brought about either through a prestigious education or natural ability (which brings us back to my original questions). That leaves only "process," and something tells me that I'm not going to be handed the Holy Grail at a prop firm. So I assume the "process" that I will learn at the firm will not constitute an "edge" of any kind. Sounds pretty bleak.
Quote from NEAsher:
Hi, guys. Iâm a newbie, and this is my first post here. Iâve just been given an offer from a large prop firm, and Iâm seriously considering it. I would be trading equities intraday, and Iâm told that some experienced guys will be showing me the ropes. I have a fairly small bankroll, but the firm is offering heavy leverage. But the thing is, I donât have any real experience with the stock market, other than long-term investing (which is very different from day trading). I recently read an article in the September 2007 issue of Trader Monthly Magazine about the Top-30-Under-30 Traders, and I noticed that I have very little in common with these professionals. Most of them come from elite educational institutions, but I do not. Most of them seem to have serious quant backgrounds â there are a lot of math and physics and technology whizzes among them. I, on the other hand, have almost no understanding of physics or mathematical models. I took basic college-level math. I can use a computer for only basic consumer applications, like the average young person. I also notice that some of these traders have a background in team sports, which I also donât really have. Iâm not sure what the correlation between team sports and successful trading is, but it seems to exist nonetheless.
In addition, some posters on this board have said that it takes an âedgeâ to be successful at trading. I can honestly say that I donât know what an âedgeâ is in this game, so I doubt that I have one. Many of the guys on this board talk about losing money for years and years, before finally becoming consistently profitable. This is one thing I know for certain: I do not want to invest many years to a losing enterprise. I can understand giving it a try for a year, or a year-and-a-half. But some guys here are talking about having lost money for more than five straight years before they started taking money out of the market regularly. I just canât do that.
I guess Iâm asking if I should bother pursuing this at all? Given my lack of a quantitative (or sports?) background, my lack of an âedge,â and my small bankroll, am I just wasting my time and money? Donât get me wrong: I donât want to sell myself completely short. I can muster about $25,000, but it would suck to lose my entire savings over the course of a few months, so Iâm only committing a small amount at first. Also, I wonât be trading with money that I need for bills or living expenses. Iâll be living with my family unless and until my trading career takes off, so I wonât have to worry about food, shelter, or utilities. Still, it seems that Iâm starting from behind the 8-ball in a business that has a very high failure rate to begin with. Does anyone have any thoughts? BTW, Iâm going to post this message on more than one board, so donât be surprised if it comes up on another part of this site. Iâm not spamming, I just want to get the most responses possible in the hopes of potentially heading off a big mistake. Thanks in advance for your help.
As an objective listener, sounds like you really don't want to pursure this. Too many "I don't know about this or how to do that. And I'm not this way and can't do that" etc, etc. I think if you are passionate about something you go at it blindly at first without even considering the road blocks.
Quote from Mom0/pH0x:
on the contrary, many REAL prop firms, where you only trade firm capital, and deposits aren't allowed, aim specifically to recruit those with no experience, and sometimes will only take unexperienced recruits exclusively...
how much do you make, per trade or per year set salary etc.?
You really want an edge?
Okay, the edge that will make you successful as a trader is the ability to control your emotions and act objectively when you execute your buys and sells. You have to stick to your trading plan even when your heart is racing, palms are sweaty and you're hyperventilating. You also have to be aggressive and be able to pull the trigger on trades and not second guess yourself.
In other words, good traders exercise controlled aggressiveness and can master their emotions when they execute their trading plan. Remember, trading plans are a dime a dozen and most of them will work if you have the discipline to follow them. Even a monkey throwing darts at a stock list can beat most MBA'd money managers as long as it can cut its losses and let its profits run.
Mental discipline. This is the edge that will make you successful. You don't need inside information or a PHD from Harvard. You don't need math skills above a sixth grade level. You just need to be disciplined and mentally strong. It's no secret that top trading firms like to recruit accomplished athletes or military types because of their discipline and competitive nature. These attributes are far more important to becoming a successful trader than academic aptitude.
Most newbies like yourself will say "no problem, I can master my emotions!", but once they're thrown into the battlefield and start trading larger positions, they end up discombobulated and blubbering like a newborn babe when the position moves against them. Or if the position is moving in their favor, they immediately hit the sell button because they're petrified that the gain will turn into a loss and they fail to adhere to their profit objective. Greed and fear is what prevents most traders from breaking out and becoming successful. Impatience and recklessness are other poisonous attributes. The best traders are like elite Army snipers. Incredibly patient and can wait for days until the situation is ideal. Calm under pressure. Decisive when they need to act. They can make snap judgements on the fly. They are supremely confident of their abilities.
Like a previous poster stated, find a prop firm that will let you practice with their own money and you'll be able to determine if trading is indeed for you.
Okay, the edge that will make you successful as a trader is the ability to control your emotions and act objectively when you execute your buys and sells. You have to stick to your trading plan even when your heart is racing, palms are sweaty and you're hyperventilating. You also have to be aggressive and be able to pull the trigger on trades and not second guess yourself.
In other words, good traders exercise controlled aggressiveness and can master their emotions when they execute their trading plan. Remember, trading plans are a dime a dozen and most of them will work if you have the discipline to follow them. Even a monkey throwing darts at a stock list can beat most MBA'd money managers as long as it can cut its losses and let its profits run.
Mental discipline. This is the edge that will make you successful. You don't need inside information or a PHD from Harvard. You don't need math skills above a sixth grade level. You just need to be disciplined and mentally strong. It's no secret that top trading firms like to recruit accomplished athletes or military types because of their discipline and competitive nature. These attributes are far more important to becoming a successful trader than academic aptitude.
Most newbies like yourself will say "no problem, I can master my emotions!", but once they're thrown into the battlefield and start trading larger positions, they end up discombobulated and blubbering like a newborn babe when the position moves against them. Or if the position is moving in their favor, they immediately hit the sell button because they're petrified that the gain will turn into a loss and they fail to adhere to their profit objective. Greed and fear is what prevents most traders from breaking out and becoming successful. Impatience and recklessness are other poisonous attributes. The best traders are like elite Army snipers. Incredibly patient and can wait for days until the situation is ideal. Calm under pressure. Decisive when they need to act. They can make snap judgements on the fly. They are supremely confident of their abilities.
Like a previous poster stated, find a prop firm that will let you practice with their own money and you'll be able to determine if trading is indeed for you.