New way to avoid Pattern Day Trader PDT rules

[chris500]

If I remember correctly, ustocktrade labels stocks as "limited liquidity" whenever there isn't a buyer or seller lined up for a specific stock. If a stock is labeled as limited liquidity you can't market in or out of a position. I never seriously considered this an option because I couldn't stomach the thought of not being able to close a position with a market order.

That sounds ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you can always exit a position with a market order and execute at the NBBO. It's a very low risk trade for them: they execute your order at the NBBO and then immediately liquidate their position at that same exact price at another exchange. They might even get paid for the order flow. Then they collect the $1 order fee from you.... And on top of that they charge a $1 per month fee and they're most likely collecting interest on the money in your account.

If I was 18 and undercapitalized (as all 18-year olds are), this place would be perfect to learn to trade. Everybody needs to blow up a couple times and learn the hard way. This place is perfect for some young kid with a couple bucks to learn the markets fast and blow up his small account instead of a $25k account.

I started trading when I was 15 and spent my teenage years winning big, losing big and blowing up. Those were very formative years and the lessons I learned is what eventually made me a profitable trader. Because I tasted the highs of winning at such a young age, that's probably what kept me going through difficult periods later in life. I was able persevere and attempt something so stupid and difficult as being a consistently profitable trader.

 

[Sig]

That sounds ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you can always exit a position with a market order and execute at the NBBO. It's a very low risk trade for them: they execute your order at the NBBO and then immediately liquidate their position at that same exact price at another exchange. They might even get paid for the order flow. Then they collect the $1 order fee from you.... And on top of that they charge a $1 per month fee and they're most likely collecting interest on the money in your account.

If I was 18 and undercapitalized (as all 18-year olds are), this place would be perfect to learn to trade. Everybody needs to blow up a couple times and learn the hard way. This place is perfect for some young kid with a couple bucks to learn the markets fast and blow up his small account instead of a $25k account.

I started trading when I was 15 and spent my teenage years winning big, losing big and blowing up. Those were very formative years and the lessons I learned is what eventually made me a profitable trader. Because I tasted the highs of winning at such a young age, that's probably what kept me going through difficult periods later in life. I was able persevere and attempt something so stupid and difficult as being a consistently profitable trader.

Wait a minute, you're saying the exchange takes the other side of the trade? Not sure that would pass muster with the SEC, let alone be a place you'd want to go anywhere near!

 

[LS1Z28]

That sounds ridiculous. I'm pretty sure you can always exit a position with a market order and execute at the NBBO. It's a very low risk trade for them: they execute your order at the NBBO and then immediately liquidate their position at that same exact price at another exchange. They might even get paid for the order flow. Then they collect the $1 order fee from you.... And on top of that they charge a $1 per month fee and they're most likely collecting interest on the money in your account.

If I was 18 and undercapitalized (as all 18-year olds are), this place would be perfect to learn to trade. Everybody needs to blow up a couple times and learn the hard way. This place is perfect for some young kid with a couple bucks to learn the markets fast and blow up his small account instead of a $25k account.

I started trading when I was 15 and spent my teenage years winning big, losing big and blowing up. Those were very formative years and the lessons I learned is what eventually made me a profitable trader. Because I tasted the highs of winning at such a young age, that's probably what kept me going through difficult periods later in life. I was able persevere and attempt something so stupid and difficult as being a consistently profitable trader.

You can't transfer positions in our out of ustocktrade. I'm not even convinced you're trading real shares with them. It seems more like a peer to peer network where you trade imaginary shares.

www.reddit.com/r/Ustocktrade/comments/7uzhzq/limited_liquidity_aker/
This thread describes the limited liquidity problem. If the superusers don't want to fill an order, you're stuck waiting for someone in their network to step up and take the other side of the trade. Obviously this could be disastrous in a volatile position.

I've never used the platform. I'm just going off what I've read. It might not be as bad as it seems. It just seems too shady for me.

 

[chris500]

Wait a minute, you're saying the exchange takes the other side of the trade? Not sure that would pass muster with the SEC, let alone be a place you'd want to go anywhere near!

Yes, look at message #3 in this thread, where I posted the quote from the customer agreement.

Part of the quote:
"I understand that Ustocktrade Securities, through its proprietary account,
is currently the only broker dealer acting in the capacity of super user on
the Trading System, and that other broker dealers may be approved as
super users in the future without notice to me."


2nd point: it's not an exchange, it's a dark pool/ATS. Big difference.

 

[chris500]

You can't transfer positions in our out of ustocktrade. I'm not even convinced you're trading real shares with them. It seems more like a peer to peer network where you trade imaginary shares.

www.reddit.com/r/Ustocktrade/comments/7uzhzq/limited_liquidity_aker/
This thread describes the limited liquidity problem. If the superusers don't want to fill an order, you're stuck waiting for someone in their network to step up and take the other side of the trade. Obviously this could be disastrous in a volatile position.

I've never used the platform. I'm just going off what I've read. It might not be as bad as it seems. It just seems too shady for me.

I guess stock daytrading really is dead and PDT killed it, because so far not one person on this forum has mentioned using this place or shared their experiences.

I don't see how anyone would have problems with liquidity, unless it was a thinly traded stock. This place exists so that they can make money, of course they want to fill your order, they get a fee from it.

 

[LS1Z28]

I guess stock daytrading really is dead and PDT killed it, because so far not one person on this forum has mentioned using this place or shared their experiences.

I don't see how anyone would have problems with liquidity, unless it was a thinly traded stock. This place exists so that they can make money, of course they want to fill your order, they get a fee from it.

Ustocktrade wouldn't really be that bad of a setup for avoiding the PDT rule if the superusers guaranteed filled market orders. But they can choose not to fill orders if a stock is too volatile. I hate the idea of being stuck in a volatile position with no way to exit.

Most people that want to day trade with an account below $25K use an offshore broker like Suretrader or Tradezero. I don't think Tradezero accepts US accounts though.

 

[Sig]

Yes, look at message #3 in this thread, where I posted the quote from the customer agreement.

Part of the quote:
"I understand that Ustocktrade Securities, through its proprietary account,
is currently the only broker dealer acting in the capacity of super user on
the Trading System, and that other broker dealers may be approved as
super users in the future without notice to me."


2nd point: it's not an exchange, it's a dark pool/ATS. Big difference.

Not really a big difference in a couple areas, like that we don't expect self-dealing in either one and it's equally detrimental in either one. Is there another ATS where the ATS owner trades on their own ATS? And they're the only market maker? Crazy.

 

[d08]

I guess stock daytrading really is dead and PDT killed it, because so far not one person on this forum has mentioned using this place or shared their experiences.

I don't see how anyone would have problems with liquidity, unless it was a thinly traded stock. This place exists so that they can make money, of course they want to fill your order, they get a fee from it.

I daytrade as do many others. Obviously I would never do it with less than 25k and never have. PDT is irrelevant for the majority of traders.

The visible market has liquidity problems if you are doing any size, never mind some corner-operator-wannabe-dark-pool.

 

[Turveyd]

Pushed all us poor people like me to Forex Spot accounts or if richer Future accounts.


Just reduced my margin from 200:1 to 30:1 FX and 20:1 which is a show stopper, moving to an Australian Broker then Futures when 10k+ i guess.


Arseeee!

 

[MoreLeverage]

2nd point: it's not an exchange, it's a dark pool/ATS. Big difference.

The old days we'd have called that a bucket shop, given the only one on the other side is the CEO's trading company. But guess if you do the SEC paperwork, you're an ATS and that sounds more reputable.