new option cancel fees for IB

Quote from hii a_ooiioo_a:


Now your first execution of 15 contracts is counted to offset the second cancelled order. You've just reduced your commissions from $1 per contract to 83¢ per contract! Genius indeed. :)

hii,
not quite. You only get credits against the fees. Thus the cancel would cost 1.20 and you'd get a credit UPTO NOT OVER the 1.20.

Modifications:
They are treated as cancel/replace by the exchange and thus charged.

Wolf,
You don't think we keep audit trails. You don't think we are audited by accountants, exchanges, regulators. Keep crying, no one is listening.
 
SEC and NASD ask you brokers to provide itemized statement in detail for all transactions and fees! That is THE REQUIREMENT!

BTW, did you ever insult ex-customers using other aliases? As for me, I always keep the root of my aliase QDZ.

:p


Quote from def:



hii,
not quite. You only get credits against the fees. Thus the cancel would cost 1.20 and you'd get a credit UPTO NOT OVER the 1.20.

Modifications:
They are treated as cancel/replace by the exchange and thus charged.

Wolf,
You don't think we keep audit trails. You don't think we are audited by accountants, exchanges, regulators. Keep crying, no one is listening.
 
Quote from hii a_ooiioo_a:

These fees, you see, are the equivalent of the House Rake in a poker game. Whether you place orders of less than 6 contracts, or more than 6 contracts, the House (broker) is going to make a small profit.

What you need to beat the House is a strategy.

Strategy: Try to avoid cancelling orders of less than 6 contracts.

If you cancel (or modify) an order of more than 5 contracts, when you re-enter the order, break it down to 6 contract orders.

If what Steve wrote about the Smart fees is accurate, then if you execute a SMART-routed order for 15 contracts for each cancelled order, then you would actually make $2.55 from the spread of the cancellation ($1.20) and the SMART execution reimbursement ($3.75). SMART, eh? :p

Maybe called "unbundling" ...
 
Quote from def:

I've stayed away from this one but IMO, the fees are there for one reason and one reason only - to keep orders from moving to other exchanges. Thus if you post a bid on one exchange and a better offer appears on another exchange, there is now a disincentive for you to cancel your order and lift the offer on the other exchange.

This also isn't a technology issue because if it truly were the exchanges would come up with different ways not to penalize the public such as sliding scale fees, credits for executions, etc.

The only advantage a market maker should have should be with fees and possibly with the handling of margin (although I'm not even sure I could argue for that with a straight face). The fee incentive should be for honoring quote their markets and responding to quote requests.

I know the exchanges are making millions off of these fees - and while market makers may not be getting a direct 'kick back" from the exchange, aren't they really unjustly benefiting from decreased competition ?

Agree ...
 
Currently, one execution eliminates one cancel fee. If you had three cancels, then traded 15 contracts, you would have to "unbundle" that order into three 5 contract orders to eliminate the cancel fees.

After the new changes, you will be able to eliminate three cancel fees with a single 15 contract SMART-routed execution.

But with all this crap, I ask again why any of you should really want to trade options at all anymore. Single Stock Futures give you none of this garbage to deal with. There's only two complaints people can make about Single Stock Futures: 8¢ spreads, and limited list of SSF stocks to choose from.

8¢ spreads? So what? With options, you're generally trading a minimum of 5¢ spreads, because they trade in 5¢ increments. Quite often, the spread on options is 10¢ or even more. When you factor in the costs of these cancellation fees, that adds more pennies to the cost of trading an options contract, depending how much you cancel or modify your orders.

SSF:
  • NO cancellation/modification fees! Cancel/modify at will!
  • No Time Decay. Your timing must be perfect when you buy options.
  • No PDT. You need $2,000 to trade SSF. With $2,000 you can trade SSF as often as you want. Screw you, S.E.C.! {middle finger}
  • 5:1 margin, intraday and overnight. This generous leverage gives you as much profit potential as you will get from options even if your timing is perfect, which it needs to be with options.

I don't understand why people snivel about 8¢ spreads on SSF, while banging their heads against the brick wall that is options. I think people are just reluctant to try anything that is new and not widely discussed. I'm glad that I'm a person who is willing to try something new.

And I'm glad that SSF came along when they did. They allow me to say a hearty "Screw you, S.E.C.!" every time I trade them or even place an order to trade them that I later cancel (with no fee!).
 
Lots of useful information & lots of crap in the 21 pages.

My $.02 – IB is still great, cancellation fee or no cancellation fee. I am happily letting them be the conduit through which I manage my current income and my retirement money and that’s not going to change anytime soon.

Def et al at IB – many thanks and keep up the good work.
 
For once I agree with you.

You should abandon trading those expensive options and trade only SSFs. A much better deal indeed.
 
Real friends loyal to IB would paid IB as much as commissions as possible from their sustainable consistent profits generously. Shut up crapping for the PDT rules , outrageous illegal fees, and baby-care overtrading etc.

:p

Lots of useful information & lots of crap in the 21 pages.

My $.02 – IB is still great, cancellation fee or no cancellation fee. I am happily letting them be the conduit through which I manage my current income and my retirement money and that’s not going to change anytime soon.

Def et al at IB – many thanks and keep up the good work.
 
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